24 replies to this topic

[Stealthe]

Trying to protect the AHK forum community from malicious scripting is part of the mods responsibility.

 

Trying to enforce the TOS of a game is that games responsibility...and a game trying to ban AHK because it works great for creating a bot I wouldn't consider that to be a bad reputation...maybe for games but not for the community.And the community is whats important here.

 

I've never heard someone say "I will not use AutoHotkey because it's great for making a bot"

[evilc]

Personally I only like 1:1 things for games.

1 key, 1 action. Basically a remap. Sure, it does give you a slight advantage over those who don't have the ability to remap, but I also understand people who do have disabilities (or personal prefs.) would like to play too. They might not be able to use WASD and then press keys like 0 (far away keys) while using the mouse.

 

Once you start doing 1:2+ (1 key, 2+) actions (or bot, or search for pixels or auto fire or rapid fire, etc) thats where I draw the line. Pushing 1 key to do a sequence of keys (lets say 1,2,3,3,1,2 or clickclickclickclickclickclickclick...) is just unfair. perfect delays, no need to pay attention. Just click once and do nothing else. Your skills no longer need skills.

 

 

Even then, it's a grey area.

 

With a lot of games these days being F2P / Early Access, there is a lot of stuff coming out with shoddy support for controls.

 

Dark Souls 2 - They promised play would be viable with keyb+mouse, they lied (At least at release). Significant logic was required to make the special moves etc usable with k+m. Hell, even targetting enemies was nigh on unusable without a macro.

 

Mechwarrior Online - Added weapons to the game that could fire at 500ms rate, and you could fit up to 6 of them on a mech, but when you fired them one after another, they fired at 500ms instead of (500ms / <number of weapons>) - making it pointless to fit more than one without using a macro.

 

For me, the litmus test is to post the macro on the official forums. If it gets removed, then there is a problem.

 

Also, with gaming hardware offering increasingly cheaty options (Crosshairs overlaid on gaming monitors, keyboards and mice with macroing features), it is often through the posting of an AHK macro that the people without fancy hardware can compete on a level playing field.

 

That being said, I think some moderation would be an idea. I do not agree, for example, with "No Recoil" scripts - one of which for BF4 is currently high in the gaming forum.

 

Back on the subject of pranks - there is only one PC prank I ever play, and that is when I encounter someone who thinks they are god's gift to IT, when in fact they are a danger.

In this case, I love to screenshot their desktop, make it their wallpaper, then move the icons somewhere else and watch them frantically try to interact with the "icons" on their desktop. LOL.

[floodindahood]

That being said, I think some moderation would be an idea. I do not agree, for example, with "No Recoil" scripts - one of which for BF4 is currently high in the gaming forum.

 

Some of the newer mice support x and y correction in combination with sleeps and button presses as well so this would also fall under hardware inequality.

Gray area indeed.

 

Just to be on topic, I've never created nor used any "pranks" since even the most harmless things can and way too often lead to catastrophic results.

[ABCza]

I'm back here since long time and reading this made me feel I want to add my 2 cents.

 

I think this is giant restriction to the learning process. A prank or a keylogger can be sincerefully legit scripts acting as showcase of coding techniques. Sometimes they are funny to learn and this is a great advantage for the newcomers.

 

If a script doesn't mess with a system in a clearly evil way, I don't understand why bashing all the category. Though I know that tidbit doesn't mean it, and I comprehend his reasoning, this kind of preventive measures shows an attitude to censorship and deprives all the user of their good faith. This is not acceptable for free software.

[tidbit]

IMO everything I put in the first page list would be as you put it "clearly evil".

 

- fake bsod. 

Evil. Why? People could bring it to a repair place. Those places are truly evil, such inflated prices its ridiculous. Or buy a completely new pc.

- disabling/editing mouse or keyboard. 

Evil. why? Could make some people go out and buy new hardware (which can be expensive. Not everyone is rich)

- making files in every folder on the pc

Thats just EVIL on so many levels

- deleting certain files with the intent to destroy a pc or annoy a user.

Do I really need to explain why this is evil?

- turning up the volume to 100% and playing a loud/obnoxious/rude/annoying sound

Do I really need to explain why this is evil?

- doing anything to destroy a pc or annoy a user on purpose.

Destroying (disable, cause errors, make a virus or malware, etc) a PC/device is just evil.

Annoying a user.. thats kinda tricky I guess. IMO anything that messes with the system, files, browser, hardware and other stuff in a negative way is just going to far.

 

I actually don't mind keyloggers, as long as it isn't used to steal information from others and upload the logs to some server without permission. But the no-keylogger rule has been on this forum for much longer than me being a moderator. It's not part of my 'censorship'.

 

What kind of pranks are not considered 'evil' and would/should be allowed to you, ABCza?

 

Remember, not everyone is PC-literate. Even at a techy community like us we get a lot of computer-noobs. Maybe they only play games or only use the pc at work and know barely anything else. This is clearly visible on IRC. We need to tell some people how to copy & paste URL's to and from the address bar of their browser.

 

If you decide to make a malicious script in AHK, fine. I'm not going to stop you (I can't, and AHK isn't my tool). But don't post it here. I think we need to be a friendly and safe place. Instead, go find some prank/virus/malware/hacker community that allows evil stuff (there's a lot of them) and share your creations there. Those who want such things will find it through google, maybe.

[ABCza]

I'm not replying because I want to fill the forum of pranks, but because I care about the freedom of thinking, speaking and learning.

 

A prank by definition is not evil. A clearly evil implementation is a malware like script.

 

My arguments were mostly ethical. As I told you I understand your thinking but I do not approve it because you are deciding for the users assuming that some code will be used in an evil way. There's a lot of stuff around that can be used in good/evil ways, what matters is the user.

 

In our case we are discussing about code, so there would be no need to talk about philosophy and ethics, because we can objectively know if a script will do something bad or not. That's why the per-script check is the way to go.

 

Anyway I don't expect to change the status quo. I just want to show my disappointment because I care about the community, but I will follow the rules.

[tidbit]

Understood

Though, we/I mostly target things advertised as a prank/annoyance. there were lots of topics with titles such as "script to annoy friends/co-workers/brother".

 

Just because a script deletes, creates or moves a bunch of files doesn't make it bad. I use a couple myself (though, self-made and unreleased). Such things are aloud. If the sole purpose is to annoy or do harm, not aloud (atleast by me). But if it's advertised as something to help, organize, assist a disabled person or something along those lines, no problem. If it gets reported by a user as being malicious, it'll be looked over and we can decide then.

 

*several days later* Edit: for example, this: http://www.autohotke...rk/#entry682310

[Hello2215]

Why have the majority of people moved to an unofficial forum rather than official one Tidbit?

[tidbit]

the other one is official. and it's covered in many many topics. This is not the place to ask it, just search.

There is even a topic specifically about it: http://ahkscript.org...c.php?f=2&t=466

[Norbornano]

You still write some nothing, current AC/DC or a basic assembler you'd never have no idea ...bla bla bla ...forum...for idiot...buy a 3way hanskake to start