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World of Warcraft: AHK = cheating?


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Spicolli
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LOL EvilKerek, you are some smart dude aren't you ?


Dude, he like apologized already.

So, you are theoreticaly right, its illegal. But according to Bliz everything is illegal, even playing the World of Warcraft by your way.


I think all EvilKerek was trying to say was that by saying it's legal when we know it ain't, someone might use an AHK script and get banned innocently.

I prefer to know what I'm doin' is gonna get me banned.

majkinetor
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Nobody will ban you if you use AHK.

Its theoreticaly possible, but, again, its theoreticaly posssible buss driver to kill you when you cross the street, so its better to stay at home .

Like I said, I use AHK to drive WoW interface from the first day. You can't create bots with AHK. BOTs are primarly reason to get banned, but again, Blizz is not very agile as I personaly reported several bots and they are still on the same places. AHK can make WoW feel better and its your private thing. The worst thing you can do is to make autoshoter where it doesn't exist, like doing heal or chain of lighting every 3 seconds. I also wonder how anybody can detect that its AHK and not me pressing the keys like crazy.
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anonomous
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Look at this page:
http://www.wowwiki.com/UI_Questions

Blizzard prevents people from beeing able to do more than one command from a single mouseclick/pressing a button. Any program that circumvent this is cheating. And if a click comes from AHK who can know where it came from. Automatic or not?

Using AHK doing a single command is not cheating but might get you banned. Wether you will be found and banned is hard to tell.

However, using wow you can configure every key and every command. So the only reason wow should get input through AHK is cheating or lack of knowledge about wows own key configure utility.

And a person who is able to make AHK work for wow is probably able to figure out the key configure utility in wow.

jonny
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Thank you for the information. I'll be sure to warn people of that in the future when they ask about WoW (as I do now for RuneScape, where it's completely illegal).

EvilKerek
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Ok this is my last post on the matter. And, yah, I'm a pretty smart guy - I code for a living and I know how this stuff works.

Nobody will ban you if you use AHK.

This is just incorrect. The correct answer is 'most likely'. You can beat this to death, but if you'll simply read the TOS you will see that they can ban you for it - and it's not THAT remote of a possibility.

Blizz is not very agile as I personaly reported several bots and they are still on the same places.

They don't go after one person - they bulk them up and do mass bans perodically. For someone that says they have played WOW so long, you are uninformed.

AHK can make WoW feel better and its your private thing. The worst thing you can do is to make autoshoter where it doesn't exist, like doing heal or chain of lighting every 3 seconds.

I agree - AutoTravel also made WOW feel better and it's banned. So that's irrelevant to the argument. If you don't use AutoHotkey to do abusive things, you are likely ok. That said, see the real problem below.

I also wonder how anybody can detect that its AHK and not me pressing the keys like crazy.

Because wonder boy, Warden can detect that the program is RUNNING. It doesn't hide - they already know you are using and currently they haven't chosen to go after it. As far as key presses, it's pretty simple to detect when something isn't random enough. People don't press keys exactly the same time, etc. Macros do. Even the random macros have a pattern. Again, for someone with so much WOW time, you are very uninformed of what's going on - there was a huge outcry when warden first hit because it looks to see what's running.

This is my last post on this - majkinetor, don't really care what you think or what you do - except you need to stop misinforming people. And maybe you should do a little more reading before you start posting. Have fun guys!

majkinetor
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They don't go after one person - they bulk them up and do mass bans perodically.

Yeah, and when is that mass bulk ? Cuz I reported before few months and bots are still there, and not only me, i talked with several ppl.

I code for a living and I know how this stuff works.

That doesn't mean you are good

Warden can detect that the program is RUNNING

LOL.

Yes it can, nothing simpler as that. But that is not legal, its privacy thing wonder boy if you were real programer you would know its not permited to send any personal info without user aproval to your server, like running programs etc... there is even name for such type of programs, and that is your excercise for today. WoW was already reported to do such things and I hope they "fixed" this. In either way, do you really think its problematic to hide AHK ? Did you ever read about black lists and ways to hide from it ? No ? It shows.

That said, the real problem is bellow :) :
What if i have AHK instance running for other reasons, lol, like I do, 3 of them all the time... how will wow know if particular script is for wow abuse or not ?

... like i said.... it shows.

As far as key presses, it's pretty simple to detect when something isn't random enough.

Then, make it random enough. Its pretty simple. AFAIK, there are even some scripts around.


EvilKerek, if you informed yourself better ... bla bla bla :lol:
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majkinetor
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However, using wow you can configure every key and every command. So the only reason wow should get input through AHK is cheating or lack of knowledge about wows own key configure utility.

Who said anything about hotkey configuration ? For that u use its own thing as it is good enough. You generaly use AHK to do different kind of things, not taken into account by the current interface for your own needs and playing habits.
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Grumpy
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I agree with majkinetor on at least one point: detecting that AHK is running isn't a good test. I suppose WoW might not be the only running program, one can have AHK active for one task (eg. typing in a word processor) while switching from time to time to the game to see how it is going. And so on.
Plus I don't know how good WoW remapping is, but I doubt it can do everything AHK can do, like mapping joystick to keyboard, which is natural for a game... I mention joytick, it could be an infrared remote, etc.
And detecting if user input is "natural" is prone to error too.

The line between comfort scripts and cheat scripts is very thin...

majkinetor
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AH, Grumpy, the mouth of senity.

BTW, there was/is a rootkit in WoW, scanning and reporting running processes .

It was really a shame, especialy from Blizz.
<!-- m -->http://www.rootkit.c....php?newsid=358<!-- m -->

If you read article above you will be sorry you don't have 10 tones of dynamite and can't teleport in the middle of the Blizz factory. One thing I hate is too see ppl standing on the side of corporations for which is proven not to respect their customers, like Blizz is. Sending my perosnal info to their servers, using undetectable processes is if nothing else, insulting. Not to say that rootkit acctually "slows down" machine capacity for games.

If I was in some normal country I would sue Blizz the moment they bann my account cuz of AutoHotKey.
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wtg
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But that is not legal, its privacy thing wonder boy if you were real programer you would know its not permited to send any personal info without user aproval to your server, like running programs etc


If I was in some normal country I would sue Blizz the moment they bann my account cuz of AutoHotKey.


Well you could try, but you wouldn't win and it'd probably just get dismissed. When you agree to their terms of service and EULA you agree not to cheat, by their definition of cheating, and agree to let them monitor you to see if you are. If you don't like it, don't play, or accept the fact that you might get banned.

Back to the point which you seem unwilling to conceed... whether you think it's right or wrong on Blizzards part, you do run the risk of getting banned using a program to feed input into WOW. Unlikely with Autohotkey? Probably. In violation of the TOS/EULA? Definitely.

Telling people otherwise when you know different is wrong, and violates the helpful and generally accurate information this board and you are known for.

majkinetor
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In violation of the TOS/EULA? Definitely.

And you are a prime judge ?


wtg, it doesn' matter if you agreed or didn't, you can't possible
agree to something that is not legal. Blizz could always put in the middle something like, "and you must agree we can enter your house and kill your family" and you can always check it, as nobody normal ever read that sht as he expects it not to contain things not permited by lows protecting basic human rights (international law)

The fact that you agreed to something still doesn't mean it is legal, but that you are uninformed about organic law.
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wtg
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In violation of the TOS/EULA? Definitely.

And you are a prime judge ?

Maybe I am. :) Or maybe I have enough understanding of US law and software licensing to know better.

The EULA isn't that complicated to understand that Autohotkey scripts result in a violation of it.

5. Consent to Monitor. WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH THE GAME. AN �UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM� AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY �ADDON,� �MOD,� �HACK,� �TRAINER,� OR �CHEAT,� THAT IN BLIZZARD'S SOLE DETERMINATION: (i) ENABLES OR FACILITATES CHEATING OF ANY TYPE; (ii) ALLOWS USERS TO MODIFY OR HACK THE GAME INTERFACE, ENVIRONMENT, AND/OR EXPERIENCE IN ANY WAY NOT EXPRESSLY AUTHORIZED BY BLIZZARD; OR (iii) INTERCEPTS, �MINES,� OR OTHERWISE COLLECTS INFORMATION FROM OR THROUGH THE GAME. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, THE GAME MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (B) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER THIS AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.


Despite your continued discussion on it's legality, that wasn't the question. The question was whether using Autohotkey can get you banned, and are you honestly saying you don't understand that?

wtg, it doesn' matter if you agreed or didn't, you can't possible
agree to something that is not legal.


What's illegal? I'll admit ignorance to EU law, so if there's something in the EULA that violates it I'd like to know out of curiousity. I like some of the strong EU privacy provisions. I'd be surprised if the WOW license knowingly violates them since it'd be just plain stupid on their part - they certainly should have attornies that know EU law - but maybe you're right. But what exactly?

I didn't see anything in the previous link you supplied that is in violation of US law.

Whatever the case, the question was still about whether AHK use could get you banned.

[edited for misspelling]

Rhys
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I don't intend to use AHK to help with WOW, but doesn't the anti-cheat program only scan for process names?

If so, wouldn't a custom-named compiled AHK script just feed over as "test.exe" or whatever you named it?

I see no way that they could id AHK specifically from a process list unless one was running an .ahk file instead of a compiled script, but I'm not an expert in this area at all!

I was my understanding that people who use (eventually) widely-known hacks are group banned, but for botting, they send you a tell and if you don't respond, you're in trouble...

majkinetor
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2Rhys
No, i provided link with explanation what WoW does in the background so you better go there and read it. I am not rootkit specialist but what Blizzard did was shame. I am very dissapointed on their acts especialy as I beleived in them as the best gaming company ever. Now, they went down the scale for number of reasons I told above

2wtg

Or maybe I have enough understanding of US law and software licensing to know better.

I play in Europe, sorry :D

5. Consent to Monitor.

Thank you for sharing this. I think this is violation of laws connected to privacy. Those are different in countries around, but what Blizz states there is basicly the same as police monitoring your phone calls and taking videos of your appartmenet all the time.

Again, I am not a laYer but after this treatment to its users I can only say: THX GOD THERE ARE HACKERS, AND I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER GAME AGAIN.
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Ace_NoOne
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Oh my - what have I done?!
/me retracts the original question
Improving my world, one script at a time.
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