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Deleting Topics


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sinkfaze
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Goes to show you really have nothing left to argue with when you have to resort to ad hominem that quick ;)


Not really, but it does go to show that you'll misattribute quotes to feel good about yourself. Not only are you well versed in ad hominem, you also know how to create a good straw man argument. Bravo.

Carcophan
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I have nothing positive or negative or indifferent, to contribute to this topic.

Side Note: This ranting is entertaining, reading the forum/code gurus bash eachother is like watching a car crash, you just cant look away but you know you should 8)

tank
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Goes to show you really have nothing left to argue with when you have to resort to ad hominem that quick ;)

nope it just shows that the village a$$ can lower himself to your standard of qualified brow beating
Never lose.
WIN or LEARN.

tank
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watch out that one got someone in trouble once before he he he he 8)
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Ace Coder
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Hmmm if the mods can flame and troll then that means we can do whatever the hell we want. How about all of you take one second to look at the fact that Sally is gone and the rules/standards being broken by the moderators themselves! Flame. Off topic. And this is the greatest eye sore on the forums since when BoBo registered! If this was ANYONE else it would be deleted instantly. But this trash remains. Do what ANY half a$$ decent mod would do and delete this thread for the good of the community! Swallow your pride stop arguing and go back to flaming via R.T.F.M.

BoBo³
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And this is the greatest eye sore on the forums since when BoBo registered!

:shock:

Ace Coder
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Lol BoBo only 8 registered posts. XD

tank
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if only i were a mod
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jaco0646
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You preach against anonymity despite using it to hide your mistakes when it's convenient.

I am not attempting to hide anything whatsoever. How many times must I apologize for something I don't even remember?

...for rewording a post without seeking your prior approval

"I did not accuse you of gross misconduct for editing my post without my permission. I accused you of gross misconduct for editing my post anonymously."

...while deleting legitimate threads

Based on Ace Coder's rendition of what happened, no legitimate threads were deleted: s/he asserts they were prime candidates for deletion. The issue here is documentation. If you omitted the documentation, it was intentional. If I omitted the documentation, it was accidental. The question is, "Is documentation helpful for the community?" Since documentation would have avoided this entire thread, I am even more convinced that it is helpful, and even more determined to document my activity if doing so precludes threads like this.

It became a public issue when jaco decided it was unnecessary to contact those involved privately and use the forums to express himself.

I'm confused by this. You raised the issue in this thread, so it was my job to contact you privately about it?

if the mods can flame and troll...

Note that the only two mods in this discussion are Titan & myself, and we are not flaming and trolling each other. The name-calling by other members is unwarranted. I call on them to edit their own posts. Since some of them are senior members, I think they deserve that opportunity. Obscene posting by guests will be deleted (either by myself or another mod) so let that serve as my documentation for this entire thread. And this is one instance where I agree with Titan: I will not bother myself to document the removal of obscene material. Anyone posting such items forfeits their right to that common courtesy.

Since a few members have expressed concern over an argument between two moderators, let me make this perfectly clear. Any disagreement between myself and Titan in no way diminishes his contributions to this forum: past, present, or future. Titan has done more for AHK than almost anyone involved; and that can never change, nor can my respect for those accomplishments. Anyone who believes we are flaming or trolling each other is mistaken.

Titan and I have a strong philosophical disagreement on moderating techniques that stretches back for over a year now. I think it is highly unlikely that either of us will ever agree with the other's point of view. On the other hand, I always believe that an argument can remain civil while the parties discuss actions and ideas rather than each other. This can be a fine line to walk at times, but I think neither Titan nor I have crossed it. We may despise each other’s point of view, but we are not afraid to debate it. I think an argument has the opportunity to be a learning experience for the community, and I see no reason to delete this. Many historical arguments remain on the forums, so the suggestion that this topic only remains due to moderator involvement is simply untrue.

Since I am well-versed in Titan's opinion, as he is with mine, I think it would be more beneficial in the future to see opinions from other users on the issue of moderating notes. Rather than either of us attempting to speak for the community, I call on the community to raise their own voices: what are your thoughts on this issue?

jethrow
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I call on the community to raise their own voices: what are your thoughts on this issue?


IMO - modification notes are not that important; however, they don't bother me either. Because of this, I say it would be better to note modifications.

Or, how about sending the user a message if their post is modified? Obviously this isn't an option if they're not registered, but that could be a benefit of being a registered user.

(note - this is my opinion as a user who hasn't had any of my posts altered by a mod)

tank
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I respect your request jaco0646 you may edit any of my posts as you se fit but my iritation with Titan is long standing and untill not largely un voiced. Perhaps you are right and he has done so much but let me see if i can calmly state my point of iritation

mods ragging on each other in public space is much like parents fighting in front of their kids. Like it or not the community has a right to expect more yes you are all volunteers but so are we its members. and with power even voluntarily accepted comes responisbility and scrutiny. Like it or not even monarchs are in power only so long as the people can accept it. i do not feel strongly in truth for one side or the other of the actual arguement. I feel strongly about the insertion of inflamitory material from one MOD to another in Public. I do think you handled your side of it much better.

Titan has a right to his feelings and to express them to you and perhaps his and your peers. we the community are not his and your peers. and his actions in this thread are more damning of AHK's reputation than the graphic posted by guest previously in this thread. I make this tstatement with the understanding acceptance and realisation theat my actions as well have been childish as a primary member of this forum in my reputation and efforts in the ask for help section of this forum. But i can do something that Titan doesnt seem capable of doing. I can admit I am out of line by having done so. you have admited you may be at fault without knowing it. I have been a MOD on other forums in the long past and even as rude and unsimpathetic as I am, i have never seen fit to attack my peers in public when i was in a position of power. I think this is what Iritates each person who has joined this thread
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Ace Coder
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Thank you tank.

polyethene
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mods ragging on each other in public space is much like parents fighting in front of their kids ... monarchs are in power only so long as the people can accept it.

We are not your parents or the monarch. This is a public forum and we have stayed within the boundaries of acceptable behaviour. The ancient Greeks invented debating as a platform to exchange ideas and learn from each other. In modern times it's used very frequently in all parts of society and in particular the FOSS world - you can find examples everywhere from mailing lists to discussion threads to blogs. Without communicating there is no way for jaco to understand my viewpoint. We respect the right to differences in opinion but also see the right to challenge them. If you find these kinds of mature discussions distressing (perhaps it reminds you too much of your parents fighting) you don't have to read it, go to the help section where your time spent would be more useful.

but my iritation [sic] with Titan is long standing and untill not largely un voiced ... let me see if i can calmly state my point of iritation

This thread was about deleting topics and how moderators have handled it, not a place for you to vent your pent-up frustrations with somebody. I suggest consulting a therapist for your anger management issues because I'm not going to give you my time of day to discuss whatever is bothering you. You're just not that worth it.

You raised the issue in this thread, so it was my job to contact you privately about it?

The initial disagreement was raised in the developer section. You admitted that Chris told you I was involved but you went ahead and publicly criticised me there anyway. I would have had the decency to take the issue privately but if your way is to speak infront of others I'll gladly follow suit whenever you're involved.

I think it would be more beneficial in the future to see opinions from other users on the issue of moderating notes

The problem goes beyond moderation notes, why edit a post when you can reply to say you've changed something?

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Lexikos
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As a user, I would like to know when my post is edited, moved or deleted by someone else. As a moderator, if I am editing someone else's post I typically feel obligated to note the changes. If an edit does not seem noteworthy, I reconsider editing. (That said, I've fixed minor issues such as broken links or broken bbcode without noting.) Although jaco's notes stand out a little more than I'd like, I typically prefer them over silent moderation and I would not consider them useless. I choose to moderate anonymously, but I support jaco's decision to not do so.

BoBoism
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This thread was about deleting topics and how moderators have handled it, not a place for you to vent your pent-up frustrations with somebody. I suggest consulting a therapist for your anger management issues because I'm not going to give you my time of day to discuss whatever is bothering you. You're just not that worth it.

@ Titan
your statement reminds me on the standard behaviour of House M.D. (which is btw my favourite TV serial + the No1 at the German ranking of medical/hospital serials).
I can say that, bc I'm acting the same way (not as sophisticated as you right, but hey, AFAIK we're working in the same industry that might have some impact on us :lol:). I fully agree the world is evil and a BoBo like myself isn't worth to waste that limited amount of time we call life, but if we can't make it to live with those, we will be reincarnated again + again + again + ... just to end up right in the middle of a thread like this :shock:
So, let's remember John Lennon's statement: Give peace a chance :wink::D

I opt for Lexikos' point of view - oK, ok, as one of your favourite guests 8)