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ahkstdlib Collection - Should I stop the Basic support?


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Poll: Should I drop the support of AutoHotkey Basic in next updates? (40 member(s) have cast votes)

Should I drop the support of AutoHotkey Basic in next updates?

  1. Yes, concentrate on AHK_L only. (26 votes [63.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 63.41%

  2. No, AHK Basic will be a standard for long time. (15 votes [36.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.59%

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Tuncay
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I would like to know what you think. With the next update and in future of my Ahk Standard Library Collection. Should I stop the explicit support for AutoHotkey Basic and concentrate to actual Release of AutoHotkey_L only?

I do not have the time and nerve to collect and maintain two collections. Also, if I concentrate on AHK_L only, more user would switch after some time. Mixing Basic and L in a single collection brings some problems and confusion and some complications. Most libs works with AHK_L, by the way. If there is any problem, it will be fixed (in hope).

(Poll ends after 30 days.)

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fincs
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Yes please. Keeping on supporting AHK Basic just hinders the development of AutoHotkey.

guest3456
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as much as i hate to say it (i'm still a Basic user), i think most new scripts should be _L focused, since thats what v2 will be based on anyway

just start a new thread, and link to the old one for basic users

maul.esel
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I would either keep basic support or choose

(missing :!:) option #3: concentrate on AHK v2

which makes some things easier: new (better) syntax, class support, Unicode only,... A bit radical though... :?

@fincs: please explain :?: I (still) don't understand how this could be the case :?:

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fincs
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If popular scripts support AutoHotkey Basic, users of said flavor of AHK will not feel the need to upgrade to AHK_L. Result: AHK_L will be used and tested by less users, and its development cycles will be slower.

girlgamer
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Although i use both at different times, for most forum queries and general utility posts i use AHK Basic. And, Believe it or Not, I use Basic for all my gaming scripts. The main reason I say this is the general impression that the Basic version appears to a new user to be a BASIC version of the more advanced AutoHotkey L so new users would tend to download and use Basic more and only migrate to L once they feel comfortable with Basic's syntax and script construction in general. L's extended syntax and objects can be a put off for new users looking for something easy but powerful to learn. Object scripting is a form of data/routine encapsulation that can be a real turn off to someone looking for simplicity. For those familiar with objects and the power that objects provide it may not be a big deal, but Autohotkey, like many other languages needs a constant infusion of new users if it means to grow. And new users first want simple, powerful, and easy to learn. BASIC fills that need beautifully. There's been, to my mind, no really compelling argument presented on these forums for migrating exclusively to L or any other version of AutoHotkey when Basic works so well for most daily tasks. One of my computer instructors made a statement in class one day that has stuck in my mind for over 20 years. He said, "The Language does not choose the person -- the person chooses the language. All software based solutions are dependent on the needs of the user and the application to be programmed." If you limit the choices you limit the scope of the solution space. A reduced solution space can not be a good thing. More choices reduce the problem space. The two -- problem space, solution space -- are inversely related. Basic and L and Iron all reduce the problem space and increase the ability to provide effective solutions to a given problem.
2 cents with a ha-penny thrown in for good measure.

The universe is a wondrous place! The faster you create unbreakable code, the faster the universe creates people that can break it. All scripting follows the rule Rule Of Twos -- 1) Good, 2) Fast 3) Cheap -- pick any Two.
I guarantee absolutely nothing about any code I provide except that it works in my machine. ●
MMO Fighter   KeyLooperDemo   Key Spammer   TinyClickRecorder  GGs Password Generator.ahk
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sumon
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I have three main arguments for my vote (going to AHK_L only):

1) I use AHK_L, and there is little to no reason not to.
2) It is easier to maintain one lib-library, and the drawback is only minor.
3) I would prefer if the community tipped over to focus on the newer versions of AHK. I must say there are a few things I really dislike with AHKv2, such as decrapated commands, but AHK_L -> AHKv2 should ideally be the progress over time. Basic time is over, in my humble opinion.

VxE
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Although I use AHK-Basic for everything except testing compatibility with -L, I would suggest that you drop the AHK-Basic support in the stdlib.

My reason is this: users who may be confused by the basic/L juxtaposition are best served by single-flavor resources. In other words, supporting both basic and L separately will confuse the confused, yielding a number of squarely-confused users.

Tuncay
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7 replies from different member, 86 views, but only 5 votes? Looks like most are still unsure too. Or just not interested in?

@fincs
It is possible that the further development would be hinded, but if people in the real world need it, then I would turn to dark side (for them). :twisted:

as much as i hate to say it (i'm still a Basic user), i think most new scripts should be _L focused, since thats what v2 will be based on anyway

just start a new thread, and link to the old one for basic users

I would not start a new thread. In the first post, I would make a download link to the last basic only version, named to "Legacy for AutoHotkey Basic (Sept, 2010)". I should save after a while some states, for the history.

(missing :!:) option #3: concentrate on AHK v2

which makes some things easier: new (better) syntax, class support, Unicode only,... /quote]
Isn`t it too early to make a collection of stdlib functions for it? No one use it for productive and there aren`t standard libraries available. I would love to work with AHK v2, but not now.

@girlgamer
Thats a realistic view how new users would see the things. With your post, you rolled the dice again. :D But look, if we "fully" support Basic, then we stand in the same situation like the developer of webpages some years before. Most people use/used IE, thats good, but it have many problems and hinders to use new features. And in example, the Unicode support is ultimately.

@sumon
1. agreed
2. agreed
3. agreed
:D

In other words, supporting both basic and L separately will confuse the confused, yielding a number of squarely-confused users.

:D

I must say, I tend to concentrate on AHK_L only. But the few member or new users of Basic gives me to something to think about.

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nimda
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AutoHotkey_L is standard. Basic is no longer supported. No bugs found in Basic will be fixed. Basic will receive no new features. It has been this way for well over a year now.

In my opinion, keeping support for Basic just complicates things. One more version to keep in mind.

AutoHotkey Basic should be lowered on the downloads page and its description changed from "suitable for new users" (paraphrasing) to "Deprecated. Only use for reverse compatibility checking"

AutoHotkey_L is no less easy to use than Basic. It provides virtually ALL or Basic's feaatures. New users shouldn't be turned off by things they aren't forced to use!

Everyone new to Autohotkey needs to download _L. This prevents problems when 1. using others code and 2. switching to _L.

I say drop Basic support. Basic is not the current autohotkey. In fact, _L should be renamed to Autohotkey and basic to Autohotkey_B.

TLDR _L only = my opinion

tank
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I say freeze the basic lib and leave it avail no new development

focus all new work on ahk_l but we warned v2 is around the corner
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girlgamer
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If i could make a suggestion here that allows for both sides to have their bread buttered on either side of the toast, how about this,

We all know that trying to run both ahk basic and ahk L together on the same system is like trying to butter bread on both sides while holding the bread in your hands. very tricky and occasionally you get your fingers all buttery too.

why not this? make separate installers for L and basic such that L doesn't overwrite the basic installation and vice-versa. That way you can run both side by side easily without worrying about one being supported and one not being supported. This a common migration strategy when upgrading systems in industry as well. Running the two as parallel also gives you the ability to migrate any scripts from basic to L with very little disruption since you simply have to copy the original basic script make whatever modifications are necessary to run it on L and "voila" you have the migration built in. As the user base matures, people will naturally gravitate toward that version which offers the greatest functionality for their needs. This way you can go ahead developing for L without having to continue supporting basic and the users can migrate as they "hit the wall" on functionality.

The way things are set up now for new people, they HAVE to choose one over the other simply because the installer for L overwrites Basic and the reverse. And Yes, i know there is a method for running them side by side already. I'm doing that. But not everyone has the chutzpah to experiment with running both at the same time and messing with separate directories, registry editing, zip files, and possible extension modifications. The main point i'm trying to make is to give the users the easiest path to migration possible without being pedantic about it. Let's make it easier to "try before you buy" AutoHotkey L by giving users an easy option to try both at the same time side by side.
two separate threads highlight the issues this would address.
http://www.autohotke...ahk ahk basic
http://www.autohotke...pic.php?t=72274
This would answer the question as to which to develop exclusively and also ease users into migrating to L without smacking them up-side-the-head and saying, "you got to choose one over the other" when they really have no clue what to pick.

The universe is a wondrous place! The faster you create unbreakable code, the faster the universe creates people that can break it. All scripting follows the rule Rule Of Twos -- 1) Good, 2) Fast 3) Cheap -- pick any Two.
I guarantee absolutely nothing about any code I provide except that it works in my machine. ●
MMO Fighter   KeyLooperDemo   Key Spammer   TinyClickRecorder  GGs Password Generator.ahk
For the newest version of AutoHotkey and some killer scripts go here.
Rock-on%20kitten.gif


Tuncay <mobile>
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The problem here is, both Ahk use same stdlib directory. Most users have single installation only. There are just a handful geeks who need and use both AND are "skilled enough" to work with both.

Mickers
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I'd like to point out the new website will focus completely on v2 there won't even be a place to ask for help with basic.

SoLong&Thx4AllTheFish
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I'd like to point out the new website will focus completely on v2 there won't even be a place to ask for help with basic.

I think that is nonsense.