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ahkstdlib Collection - Should I stop the Basic support?


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Poll: Should I drop the support of AutoHotkey Basic in next updates? (40 member(s) have cast votes)

Should I drop the support of AutoHotkey Basic in next updates?

  1. Yes, concentrate on AHK_L only. (26 votes [63.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 63.41%

  2. No, AHK Basic will be a standard for long time. (15 votes [36.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.59%

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nimda
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_Basic should be lowered on (dropped of of?) the downloads page and deprecated. Too often have I seen noobs who want to use _L script but have trouble converting to _L.
There are very few reasons to use Basic, and those only matter to advanced users. Basic is no longer the standard.

It is hard to make use of _L's features if you want Basic support. Keeping Basic support just negates all of the work put into _L, and all of the benefits that it provides :(

girlgamer
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I suspect that if you drop (other than deprecate) Basic you will reduce your forum workload by about half. This for the reason that over 1/2 of the new people coming on the boards are using basic and you will likely lose those people as well.

Another point to consider is the maintenance and upgrade for the faqs, the tutorials, and the commandlist. Has anyone given consideration for the level of support it will take to teach new, non-programmers, how to use objects in L?

I'm trying to be realistic here, however i don't see an upside to switching to L without a lot of crossover and dual postings to show how Basic and L features are both similar AND different. And there will a be, i imagine, some times when you will have to show people how to convert working Basic scripts to L scripts as well.

Just a thought...and i've been wrong before....

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jethrow
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... over 1/2 of the new people coming on the boards are using basic and you will likely lose those people as well.

Let's look at this from a purely non biased standpoint - what are the upsides of NOT dropping Basic (not that I'm saying we should)? The main thing I see is that a majority of the scripts in the forums are written for AHK Basic. This would be an issue when using DllCall/NumPut/etc...

Other than that, are there any good reasons for a noobie NOT to use AutoHotkey_L? Or, to state it another way, what advantages does Basic have for the newbie that are NOT available in AutoHotkey_L?

Has anyone given consideration for the level of support it will take to teach new, non-programmers, how to use objects in L?

Why even teach them? Additionally, are _L arrays more confusing than Basic arrays?

nimda
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+1 jethrow
stated better than I could

tank
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Yes well your argument assumes noobies bother with arrays. And even more so assumes that they understand the concept.
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tidbit
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this has been discussed several times in several paces. I'll start a new topic where everyone can (express|argue|complain|compare|rant|praise|opinionate) all they want about any AHK branch.

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nimda
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Yes well your argument assumes noobies bother with arrays. And even more so assumes that they understand the concept.

No. It states that noobs benefit from using _L more often than not, be it with using others' codes or beginning to move to the deeper aspects of AHK including but not limited to :p arrays, COM, debugging...

And that there is not a reason for them (emphasis on them, meaning noobs) to use Basic over _L.

tank
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nimda sorry you assume they need or want to. you can write perfectly valid code that will do all sorts of things without ever using COM, Arrays etc
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Elesar
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The way I have looked at it is, most, if not all of my scripts that I have sitting around from when I was a newb to AHK all worked in _L without modification in any way.

Once I started looking into more advanced scripts (DLL calls), THEN I had to make changes. If a newb is working with DLL calls, most likely they will be asking questions on it regardless of if they are in Basic or _L, so why not go ahead and teach them the newer way of doing stuff (That will probably also work in v2 once that is out - less re-learning down the road).

Yes, AHK_L has Objects, which can be confusing, but it does also still support ~99% of Basic functionality, including pseudo arrays (which, honestly, hits the same point above...why teach the deprecated method if they will just have to re-learn it soon-ish anyway).

nimda
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nimda sorry you assume they need or want to. you can write perfectly valid code that will do all sorts of things without ever using COM, Arrays etc

Youmiss my point. Why should a noob use basic? If they never mature enough to use _L's advanced features, fine.
However if they do, or even want internet automation, there is quite a reason for _L

tank
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My point is that except for those advanced things Arrays Objects etc there is no argument for them to change. COM and other is all still very present in basic which is what we are locked into at my workplace. Honestly, I don't need L's features but as an experienced programmer I prefer them. But a Noob has no reason to bother with converting working Scripts all over the forum. there simply isn't a valid argument for them to do so. 99% of them don't want to learn. Lock what exists make it static move the basic download to autohotkey.net like all other legacy versions move the current l documentation. Leave all that exists but refuse to expand or fix it. It is the only valid plan its what almost all major software companies do, and it does work. want proof? watch what happens to windows XP in the corporate world by the end of 2014. XP works for everything. its perfectly valid But Microsoft's extended support ends in 2014. Ending support is the only way to actually affect change in the software world. I do not disagree with the statement of 99% of all basic functionality is still there. I disagree that the current model gives a noob a reason to bother
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fragman
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Using pseudo arrays ends up to be much more difficult and unreadable though if you want to do things like inserting/deleting/sorting elements.

jethrow
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I completely agree with tank. Don't limit people - just don't continue to push a project that is no longer being developed. Unless someone is going to continue development of AHK Basic, it should & will faid over time in the light of AHK Builds that are being developed. The libraries should follow this. If reasonable, and if the author chooses to, it would be a good idea to make libraries compatible with both _L & Basic for now.

sinkfaze
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...it would be a good idea to make libraries compatible with both _L & Basic for now.


The eternal argument for keeping Basic will be the libraries if that be the case, and we will always be stuck in the same situation we're in right now, trying to figure out what version a user is running to make sure we're supporting them properly (as if the situation isn't absurd enough already). Progress needs to weed out Basic, not keep it on life support.

Tuncay <mobile>
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Some or most of you missed the point. I was asking if I should continue to collect the already available libraries. If there are enough people who need such a collection, then I would collect for them too. Here we are discussing a more general question about new libs.