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Quantum Entanglement disproving God?


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Zaelia
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Better than a long sentence, 2 movies link about religion, especially if you don't want to lose a life to study epistemology and other sciences or religious history...

<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Agora_film<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia...._Man_from_Earth<!-- m -->

...and for joke , if you add "soul cloning" as possible, then we add no answer and a lot of more questions about god/soul existing...
"You annoy me, therefore I exist."

nimda
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@infogulch: the key to my 'quote' (or whatever it was) is shape.
I could just as well change it to (and I should change it to)...

"Look guys! The world is perfect for us. It must have been created divinely"
"Look guys! That pothole is the perfect shape for the water it holds...


Because the point here is that the water has adapted to fit.
Saying the pothole is the perfect shape for the water inside is ridiculous.

Mickers
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@infogulch: the key to my 'quote' (or whatever it was) is shape.
I could just as well change it to (and I should change it to)...

"Look guys! The world is perfect for us. It must have been created divinely"
"Look guys! That pothole is the perfect shape for the water it holds...


Because the point here is that the water has adapted to fit.
Saying the pothole is the perfect shape for the water inside is ridiculous.

The question becomes: where did the water come from?

Oh look my 420th post!
https://ahknet.autoh...Mickers/420.bmp

Zaelia
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Oh yeah ! your #420 hide the answer to life...

Posted Image

<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.... ... the_Galaxy<!-- m -->
"You annoy me, therefore I exist."

sumon
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Oh yeah ! your #420 hide the answer to life...

Posted Image

<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.... ... the_Galaxy<!-- m -->


Posted Image
Nope.


SoggyDog
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Oh look my 420th post!
https://ahknet.autoh...Mickers/420.bmp

Again, where's the "Like" button when you need one :lol:

fragman
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"Look guys! The world is perfect for us. It must have been created divinely"
"Look guys! That pitcher is the perfect shape for the water it holds...

Lemme finish that for you:

"Look guys! That pitcher is the perfect shape for the water it holds... so it must have been created specifically for that purpose" :idea:

---------------------------

Anyways, on the topic in general. I would consider myself religious (christian), but I do not consider the soul inherently separate from the body. In fact, the bible says that the soul is a living person, not that a person has a soul (Gen 2:7; Lev 23:30; Eze 18:20; 1 Pet 3:20). More simply, that the word "soul" and "person" (referring to your flesh and blood) are roughly interchangeable.

tl;dr: there is no soul (in the OP's sense of the word) so the existence of quantum teleportation doesn't necessarily disprove God.

---------------------------

That still leaves a problem though: what is consciousness? And if it's not in the soul (since we don't have one) where is it?

I'm theorizing here, so bear with me. An important premise that many people believe (including me) is that consciousness cannot be explained by classical physics (including chemistry, biology etc). I'm not sure that this has been "proven" per se, but it's pretty much universally understood. (e.g. the belief in a soul in the first place)

This very interesting article and paper Nobel Prize Winner Says DNA Performs Quantum Teleportation, if accurate, seems to imply that various quantum "spooky" effects are actually part of normal biological processes. (I'll just let that sink in for a second.............)

My theory is that the brain itself (which is largely not well understood) uses quantum effects on a regular basis, and that our consciousness stems from this. This theory satisfies the above premise. It could also explain various biological things, like how death (of consciousness) is irreversible even if the body is able to support itself, or how people come in and out of comas, or maybe even how organ transplants/blood transfusions can alter the personality of the host.

ALSO, if consciousness stems from things such as quantum superposition, then just the act of reading each molecule to reproduce it somewhere else would break that quantum link and change (or destroy) the original consciousness.
AND if quantum links are the root of consciousness then the quantum links themselves must be recreated exactly at the reconstruction stage of the teleportation.

Conclusion: quantum teleportation of humans (more specifically consciousness) is not possible.


I agree with you on the last point, but there are much simpler technical reasons that prohibit human teleportation. It is obvious that it isn't possible to teleport something the size of a human on a timescale of a few attoseconds or lower. But if this isn't possible, electrons, photons, plasmons etc. would evolve to different states during the process of teleportation, thus altering the person and prohibiting an exact replica. Freezing the person close to zero kelvin isn't possible either because of crystallization occurring in cells causing irreparable damage. This gets even worse if you assume longer time scales required for the process, you get all kinds of molecular reaction and transport processes and if you go even longer the person would just bleed to death.

On another topic, I consider myself agnostic, as this is the only reasonable position to take on this topic (yes I know this sounds just as fundamental as some others...:D). There's just no way of knowing for sure about these things as it is not perceptible. You may experience things that you interpret for the action/result of a divine being or the lack thereof, but in the end it's just not possible to be sure because you lack knowledge of the physical world and the factors that influenced the experience. And this is just the physical world which you actually can perceive. If there was a non-physical dimension and you would not be able to perceive it, how would you know/believe what it's like?
Of course there are books/churches/people telling you about their beliefs, but for all we know they could just be lying or being fooled themselves. Then there's even historical proofs that parts of todays religions were simply created/changed by mankind (see early Christian days for an example). On the other hand a divine being that doesn't interact with our physical world isn't (dis)provable by definition.

Conclusion: You may be convinced that your beliefs are correct but this doesn't mean that you're right. The only thing we can really be sure of is that we can neither proof or disproof the existence of a god.

nimda
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@infogulch: the key to my 'quote' (or whatever it was) is shape.
I could just as well change it to (and I should change it to)...

"Look guys! The world is perfect for us. It must have been created divinely"
"Look guys! That pothole is the perfect shape for the water it holds...


Because the point here is that the water has adapted to fit.
Saying the pothole is the perfect shape for the water inside is ridiculous.

The question becomes: where did the water come from?
[...]

Precipitation of course. It's a cycle. Nobody ever said the water had to have been created.

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There's just no way of knowing for sure about these things as it is not perceptible. You may experience things that you interpret for the action/result of a divine being or the lack thereof, but in the end it's just not possible to be sure because you lack knowledge of the physical world and the factors that influenced the experience.


That reminds me of a short parable: There was a man who held his hands over his eyes so that he could not see anything. This man said to everyone he met "I do not believe that there is a sun in the sky because I cannot see it". Any passerby who tried to tell the man about the sun only made him reply "I cannot see any sun, therefore nobody can be sure there is a sun." Eventually, each person who talked with the man traveled on, shaking their heads.

RaptorX
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There's just no way of knowing for sure about these things as it is not perceptible. You may experience things that you interpret for the action/result of a divine being or the lack thereof, but in the end it's just not possible to be sure because you lack knowledge of the physical world and the factors that influenced the experience.


That reminds me of a short parable: There was a man who held his hands over his eyes so that he could not see anything. This man said to everyone he met "I do not believe that there is a sun in the sky because I cannot see it". Any passerby who tried to tell the man about the sun only made him reply "I cannot see any sun, therefore nobody can be sure there is a sun." Eventually, each person who talked with the man traveled on, shaking their heads.


I think that parable doesnt really apply since the problem is not that we "cover our eyes not to see stuff" but that we realize our limitations (our senses are not enough to perceive everything around us and thus cant prove lots of things) and thats why some of us say: "there is not enough proof". I would promptly add "Yet..."

I laugh at the attempts of mortals to figure out the other world(s) physical and non physiscal when they dont even understand their own world yet...

About OP questions:

1. At the moment even the idea of trying to teletransport a whole human is far from possible, i think this answer cannot be answered yet.

I do think that when we have enough knowledge and the correct technology that should be perfectly possible. I dont think We would see that on our lifetimes though.

2. One thing has nothing to do with the other. The fact that we could transfer a person from one place to another has nothing to do with if there is a God or not... I see teletransportation as another form of transportation, think cars, elevators, trains, planes and so on... just faster.

@nimda
failed attempts to troll are too obvious and painful to keep reading... if you have something to apport to the conversation then do so, otherwise keep the religious "flame" out of the topic... its actually not needed.
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You know, I was thinking. We couldn't really call this method teleportation even if it really were possible. Likewise, you can't call a fax machine a teleportation device.
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i understand why a fax machine wouldnt be called a teletransportation machine since the data travels through the telephone wires to get to the other fax machine, but as i understand it there is no "traveling" of the particles with this method, you just copy it from one place to another... not sure how though :lol:
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obviously thru some as of yet discovered transfer of energy

but consider pattern recognition. i know when i read the words what they mean mostly because of recognition that the written text relates to auditory words i have heard and based on context i am able to understand both direct and implied meaning.

in a way this is the same thing
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Some things to consider from a Biblical standpoint:[*:3jhoap8d]People can be possessed by spirits - in which case they may seem like an entirely different person. I'm not an expert on spirits, but I would assume they don't follow our understanding of physical space (or possibly time). However, as stated before, the spirit & soul are different.[*:3jhoap8d]There are several accounts of the dead coming back to life. This would be evidence that a soul could leave a body, but then be re-united with the body.Also, food for though: What proof is there that Love exists?