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sinkfaze
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Also, you guys forget that I am an atheist.


I don't think anyone's forgotten that you're an atheist, but you refuse to acknowledge that aspects of prayer have a universal utility (study, introspection, clarity, etc.). Even if prayer (or meditation or what have you) didn't create these methods, and even if it only teaches them in a limited scope, it is generally acknowledged that prayer is the most popular method of teaching and transmitting these methods throughout human cultures. Although you don't "believe" in prayer, you "believe" in the techniques that prayer employs to propogate your own belief in atheism. Is that really so different?

Zod
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You guys wouldn't believe the quote for the simple fact that you believe prayer does accomplish something

As an athiest I cant beleive your so narrow minded. Perhaps your right and no higher power is listening. Christians dont beleive they will get what they ask for but hope it will be granted. Lets for the sake of arguement there is no god. Lets assume this is established fact that all can aggree upon. the assumption that prayer accomplishes nothing is even more foolish. For the doer finds a kind of peice and resolve. The kind of peace and resolve that only a honey badger can have. and let me tell you Honey Badger dont take no sh**!. :p
The point is that human resolve to an outcome is a powerful thing. A true believer in anything (god, the water, yoda etc) will disregard risk and accomplish a great many things that pragmitists will not because of the belief that the risk is beyond the reward. Lest we forget true believers built the only structures that are permanent. Now on another subject a simple shift in the magnetic poles as is likely to happen and we are all back to the pre industrial age without any of the skills.
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As an athiest I cant beleive your so narrow minded.

I think you've identified the key trait of the evangelical atheist. One would think that, logically, an atheist would have the sense and decency to peacefully allow anyone to have the spiritual delusion of their choice, so long as they don't use it as an excuse to inflict 'bad stuff' on others.

However, the evangelical atheist feels compelled to belittle anyone who disagrees with their faith, and so rants about how stupid ''religious people' are and how only atheists can possibly gain enlightenment.

The cause is simple, evangelical atheists have an inferiority complex, perhaps compounded by their belief that time and the universe will grind to dust everything they are and know, and try to feel 'important' by insulting others.

Stupidity is relative, but that's no reason to fling it in anyone's face.

Zod
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evangelical atheist

wow never saw it in that light but what a strong point

Stupidity is relative, but that's no reason to fling it in anyone's face.

Nice :)
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Mickers
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Christians dont beleive they will get what they ask for but hope it will be granted.

This is a true and false statement at the same time. Christians, or those who claim to be, mostly don't believe their prayers will be answered. The problem lies in faith. All religions, and athiesm is a very popular one, require faith in something. A christian should know that with faith they can move mountains. It's not what is prayed for but why.
We are supposed to ask the lord for everything because we have made him #1 priority and because we know all power rests with him. If I pray to become a millionare then I'm truly putting wealth over him and therefore wealth is my god and therefore I'm praying to him / it. :)

Eedis
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As an athiest I cant beleive your so narrow minded.

I think you've identified the key trait of the evangelical atheist. One would think that, logically, an atheist would have the sense and decency to peacefully allow anyone to have the spiritual delusion of their choice, so long as they don't use it as an excuse to inflict 'bad stuff' on others.

However, the evangelical atheist feels compelled to belittle anyone who disagrees with their faith, and so rants about how stupid ''religious people' are and how only atheists can possibly gain enlightenment.

The cause is simple, evangelical atheists have an inferiority complex, perhaps compounded by their belief that time and the universe will grind to dust everything they are and know, and try to feel 'important' by insulting others.

Stupidity is relative, but that's no reason to fling it in anyone's face.


Umm.... What? Not once did I insult anyone. I do not preach to anyone my faith and do not expect anyone to do the same to me. This is all just one civil argument in which I put out a few points of my own, not insulting a single person. Please, quote me where I have called any Christian stupid. Quote me where I have possibly insulted anyone. I will apologize when you show me.

The cause is simple, evangelical atheists have an inferiority complex, perhaps compounded by their belief that time and the universe will grind to dust everything they are and know, and try to feel 'important' by insulting others.

And in all honesty, I take what you said as an insult and it's obvious that was the purpose. So please, don't put words into my mouth and then continue to contradict yourself. Thank you.
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nimda
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And in all honesty, I take what you said as an insult and it's obvious that was the purpose. So please, don't put words into my mouth and then continue to contradict yourself. Thank you.

+1
And if you're going to participate in a debate, at least use a temporary nick; there's been more than one guest and I don't know if they're the same :?

Eedis
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And if you're going to participate in a debate, at least use a temporary nick; there's been more than one guest and I don't know if they're the same :?

And yes, this is very annoying also.

*EDIT* Posted it as a suggestion, here.
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sinkfaze
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Umm.... What? Not once did I insult anyone.


You insulted prayer, which is a tenet of most religious and spiritual ideals. You've been presented evidence of aspects of prayer that "accomplish" things, aspects which are not exclusive to prayer but are used in prayer, and yet you've chosen to completely ignore that area of universal ground, to ignore facts, to protect your beliefs (as if it means anything to protect your beliefs from such things).

In that respect, being called "narrow minded" and an "evangelical atheist" are not unwarranted responses, even if overstated. Protect your beliefs if you must, but don't protect them at the expense of the truth.

nimda
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:lol: These forums... I tell ya
someone says "religion" and suddenly... debate!
I have my own rational reasons for what I believe/do not believe. This doesn't mean anyone else will come around to my point of view. And as an even wiser anonymous once said, "a witty saying proves nothing."

sinkfaze
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someone says "religion" and suddenly... debate!


What's sad is that both the religious and irreligious tend to lose sight of the areas upon which they largely agree.

girlgamer
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it would appear that all the philosophical bases for theological thought exist on this forum, for although there are believers and non believers i myself am an agnostic and hold the position that regardless of any "theological" basis for whatever god or gods you might choose to ideate, there is currently no empirical or rational way to prove it either one way or the the other -- and hence it's "unknowable". My position is that there is a fundamental difference between belief and knowledge. And i reserve the right to withhold judgement until such time as more fact becomes available. Nor do i consider theological conjecture fact. And on that note -- let the games begin.

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sinkfaze
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Sounds more like you're ignostic rather than agnostic.

girlgamer
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More like weak agnosticism rather than ignostic. I don't require a comprehensive or coherent definition of god or deity. But simply feel that the jury is not yet in on the whole God thing. I'm willing to admit i can be wrong because i just don't know one way or the other. If anything, i tend to lean more to the pragmatic side. What people believe in is their business and none of mine, however, i find most arguments for either side a bit less than well developed and tilted more toward superstition and wishful thinking than fact. But I'm open to being convinced. Supposition, conjecture, and dogma however are not what I would call rational argument. As is reasoning from conclusion to premise. All that is is thinly veiled justification.

The universe is a wondrous place! The faster you create unbreakable code, the faster the universe creates people that can break it. All scripting follows the rule Rule Of Twos -- 1) Good, 2) Fast 3) Cheap -- pick any Two.
I guarantee absolutely nothing about any code I provide except that it works in my machine. ●
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Eedis
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You insulted prayer, which is a tenet of most religious and spiritual ideals. You've been presented evidence of aspects of prayer that "accomplish" things, aspects which are not exclusive to prayer but are used in prayer, and yet you've chosen to completely ignore that area of universal ground, to ignore facts, to protect your beliefs (as if it means anything to protect your beliefs from such things).

In that respect, being called "narrow minded" and an "evangelical atheist" are not unwarranted responses, even if overstated. Protect your beliefs if you must, but don't protect them at the expense of the truth.

I did not insult prayer. I merely stated that, from my point of view, prayer is pointless. I never once directly stated that prayer was pointless.

..which is obvious from my standpoint, that prayer is pointless.

Therefore, to me, praying does not accomplish a thing.


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I love my wife, my life, my atomic-match; for giving me the greatest gift a man could ask for, such a perfect and beautiful little girl.
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