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Reasons why enterprises do not use AHK


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G. Sperotto
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Take one look at your forum. You have threads asking to get around gameguard, forum sections detacated to gaming...do I really need to spell this out for you?

The AHK community ENCOURAGES gaming scripts.

 

If i were to take your argument that mere forum existence reveals true intentions, couldn't you likewise say that the admin team may have created the gaming section to keep game related questions away from "more important matters" without having to resort to an outruling and the required modderating efforts it would cause? The exact opposite conclusion may than be taken from the very same argument: That shows how weak an argument it is.

 

 

Forum sections are really created to help organize threads by subject. Not to "encourage" them. If the admin team did whanted to "encourage" game automation scripts, why would there be no pinned topics from the admin team inviting people to do so in the gaming sections?

 

 

AutoHotkey does not "encourage" or "scream" game automation and the statistics i previously posted clearly reveal that the vast majority of the autohotkey users and the community alike aren't really using autohotkey for game automation.


"What is a suitable automation? Whatever saves your day for the greater matters."
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tidbit
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admin team may have created the gaming section to keep game related questions away from "more important matters" 

 

It was my suggestion to add a Gaming section, exactly for this purpose. Many users hate helping gamers/gaming related questions. Having something frowned-upon by many users in the main section was getting a bit much, so I brought up the idea of a Gaming sub-section and it was made. Now we/I enforce it by moving topics posted in the wrong section to the gaming section (if stated that it's for a game).

We don't encourage it. We organized it.


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Volly
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If i were to take your argument that mere forum existence reveals true intentions, couldn't you likewise say that the admin team may have created the gaming section to keep game related questions away from "more important matters" without having to resort to an outruling and the required modderating efforts it would cause? The exact opposite conclusion may than be taken from the very same argument: That shows how weak an argument it is.

 

OMG. You just don't get it. PRECEPTION IS REALITY. All the corporate person will do is view the list of sections in the forum, make a decision on that, then leave. The AHK forum is your main voice here, your presentation to the world. Social media presence is also part of it. Most people when exploring or trying to gather information to make a decision such as if to use a product or not will look at the support system of said product. When they look here the FIRST thing they see is gaming stuff all over the place. Does the term "First impression" mean ANYTHING to you?

 

 

It was my suggestion to add a Gaming section, exactly for this purpose. Many users hate helping gamers/gaming related questions. Having something frowned-upon by many users in the main section was getting a bit much, so I brought up the idea of a Gaming sub-section and it was made. Now we/I enforce it by moving topics posted in the wrong section to the gaming section (if stated that it's for a game).

We don't encourage it. We organized it.

 Exactly. And that is why corporations think AutoHotKey is for gaming. You did NOT discourage it, You did NOT ban it, You ENCOURAGED it.

 

If you honestly think the corporate person who is in charge of security matters will take the time to look at everything here, you are a fool. They neither have time for it nor will they go any further than seeing the forum sub sections and make a decision.

 

The vast majority of members here are just gamers looking for ways to bot a game. If you go on other game sites time and time again they say if you want to bot - use AHK.

 

Are you REALLY that foolish to think corporate america would use a language that it's main social promotional driver is gaming? if yes then a huge FACEPALM from the folks who know otherwise.


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tidbit
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that it's main social promotional driver is gaming?

 

There are 96,127 topics in Scripts and Support. of those 96k, 2,932 are gaming. That's roughly 3%. Last I checked, 3% is not the majority. 

 

As for 'promotional drive', on the homepage (http://www.autohotkey.com/) it does not once advertise "use to cheat at games". Not even a mention of the word "game". But it does mention "Desktop forms" and "Data processing".

 

Yes, ahk is gamer friendly. But so are other languages. Did you know people make bots, cheats and hacks in c? c++? c#? python? js? People also make viruses and malware in those. I bet around 3% of c<family> is used for game-related and other malicious stuff too, often times with direct memory/packet editing/setting/injecting.

 

Might aswell go back to pen-and-paper. That's the safest bet. Until your pen leaks all over.

 

PS: there are many people here who have gotten AHK into their job, and saved them hundreds of thousands or even tens-of-millions of dollars. Not puny little startup businesses.

 

PPS: I'm also against game stuff. I very rarely help with any game questions. Infact, on IRC, I often try to convince people otherwise. And I only go in the Gaming forum sections to move posts. I have a low tolerance for gamers who automate/bot games and especially if they lack patience and gratitude toward helpers (which is far too often).


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Volly
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You really are not getting it. It is not the post that matter here but the forum sub section headers. That is what is giving the first impression. That is the entire point here. It is inmaterial anything past that if you are using anything in the sub forum to defend what you preceive as not being game related.

 

First impression people.

 

edit: when you go to the forum landing page what do you see for the FIRST TWO sub forums as names? Support >Gaming and Scripts > Gaming. Right at the top in clear type. again - It is the First impression is all that matters here. If I was a coprorate person who is looking at product this is how I WILL react:

I could care less there are only a small % of post game related. I'm not going to look for that. I see gaming and that is all I need to see for I'm convinced this is a gaming product.


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tidbit
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Great, now go tell that to Polyethene. Only he can add/change/rename/delete sections. Have him limit this website to only professionals and business, no fun, no games. have him delete every post with the word "game" in it.

 

Better yet, lets just limit ahk to business owners and employees. Ban everyone unless they have proof they work for a big company.

</sarcasm>

 

BTW, the higher ups don't really even make the decisions, IT departments do. Atleast from most (not all. Some bosses are stubborn) stories I've heard. Just mention "automate. save hours. make money" and you'll get a direct "YES!" or "No.". You need to convince them, not show them a website. Sell your boss AHK, don't beg them.

And perhaps you don't need permission. Maybe as some higher-up IT person you've been given permission to install/update/fix anything that can help make more $$$.

...Maybe that just depends on the business type (family, fortune 500, small town, other) and how controlling the boss is (not all bosses/higher-ups suck).

 

Edit: A lot of people we get (who are making a work script) on IRC actually make scripts BEFORE their boss/IT know about it. In hopes that they'll be able to keep it and lessen their work load. Whats a better way to convince your boss that you can cut out 30-90% of your work by actually showing them? That's good convincing. If they still say "No.", try again, or not.

Yay portable programs.

 

And why do you care about this 'issue' so much? almost all your posts are about it, from 2009 to now.


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G. Sperotto
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The vast majority of members here are just gamers looking for ways to bot a game.

 

That is not true at all. Have you even checked the statistics i posted? And it is pretty obvious that gaming sites will recommend an application for gaming automation if the subject of game automation was introduced. Were you really expecting them to recommend one for solving accounting issues?

 

 

 

All the corporate person will do is view the list of sections in the forum, make a decision on that, then leave.

 

You are presenting a very unlikely sequence of events as if it were a recipe for how decisions are taken on a business level. Do you really think corporate people simply happen by the website/forums one day without having ever heard or seen AutoHotkey being used to solve a given task before? And if it did solved the matter, do you think this person would simply abandon it because there is a gaming subsection on AutoHotkey forums? What kind of reasoning is that?

 

I also think the real discussion here is why AutoHotkey is not used by Software houses, because it IS used by a lot of companies to automate internal tasks. After all, the package is downloaded more than 2.000 times each day (check this post) and gaming is NOT the prime reason as per statistics.

 

 

 

BTW, the higher ups don't really even make the decisions, IT departments do.

 

TidBit is right on that one too, IT people usually handle any small matters such as automating a typing task without really discussing their tools througly with the higher ups. The IT team on my company for example, they have hundreds of small apps to solve issues such as recovering deleted files, allowing remote connecting to a Software houses support team, and etc.

 

Perhaps the question of this topic should really be interpreted as "Why isn't AutoHotkey adopted as the language of choice by SoftWare houses to create ERPs and other mainstream company systems?" If that is the case, my answer is simply "the lack of a real compiler and the general lack of expert level AutoHotkey programmers in most cities".


"What is a suitable automation? Whatever saves your day for the greater matters."
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Volly
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Sigh...Let this picture with the callouts speak for itself. The AHK community promotes gaming RIGHT ON THE FORUM HOME PAGE and this proves it.

 

4pz5w4.jpg

 

It makes NO DIFFERENCE on anything else you say. That right there is the deal breaker. Seeing how you do not understand business deals let me spell it out for you:

You go into every business deal with upsides and down sides. If you can live with the down side, the upside takes care of itself. This is the critical part - It makes no difference how good the upside is. The downside is ALWAYS more important than the upside. In this case this problem of the AHK community promoting game automation is a downside that can NOT be lived with.

 

You guys want to be taken seriously, then stop allowing in the AHK forum any game automation discussion at all. No mention of it, no discussion, zero tolerance. Threads are closed when a user attempts to duscuss game automation and then the user is banned if they keep trying to discuss it. You should also go as far as zero tolerance to include:

  • Joke or prank scripts
  • CAPTCHA automation, anti-bot agents, software activation without proper license
  • Maulware of any form
  • Automation of sites or software that is contrary to their EULA
  • Code injection

Even with all this added to the community rules (which by the way I can't even find any forum rules at all here) it will take YEARS to undo the damage to AHK's reputation this current horrible gaming stance the community has taken. Anything other than that then the deal breaker is there and the AHK reputation will be treated the way it is now by the corporate world and AV companies for this is what they BELIEVE for it is what they see: AHK is used mainly to bot games thus will not be used. AV companies will treat AHK as a botting language and thus all AHK scripts will be flagged.

 

The other big part your missing is what THEY THINK. Not what you think. Again, preception is reality. That picture above paints a real good reality.


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Jackie Sztuk _Blackholyman
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pG69uU4.png uh no a programing forum with a game section we can't use this language

really LOL

the autohotkey forum tells you nothing about what the sub forums are for so there is no argument in that
Helping%20you%20learn%20autohotkey.jpg?d

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tidbit
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You should also go as far as zero tolerance to include:

  • Joke or prank scripts
  • CAPTCHA automation, anti-bot agents, software activation without proper license
  • Maulware of any form
  • Automation of sites or software that is contrary to their EULA
  • Code injection

 

We already have a zero tolerance for pranks (it's in a pinned topic)

same with malware, which is covered in that topic. ANYTHING malicious or annoying.

 

"website automation"... Who is going to make a database of every website stating that their EULA permits automation? That's not something we AHK mods can moderate. We are not required to learn the terms of every website ever made, ever. Most people don't even tell us their website, they just give us some HTML/spy info. So we don't know.

 

"code injection"... That's really a case-by-case thing. Injecting JS into an activex control to trigger a button press? Inject some code to add custom menus/buttons into a program? That's fine. If it's malicious, we already cover those things in a zero-tolerance pinned topic, and it'll be removed asap.

 

"CAPTCHA automation, anti-bot agents, software activation without proper license" ... Never seen anyone do these with AHK. Do people make software cracks in ahk? yes, probably. But those are usually on crack/gen communities, highly doubt there are any on here. We do not moderate the whole internet, we stay on this domain name.

 

"AHK is used mainly to bot games" ... you keep saying that but we keep showing otherwise. Where are your stats that "AHK is only for gamers, the majority of AHK is used as bots". Only 3% of the posts are about games, even fewer are bots. Burst-fire pistols are not a bot. It's an advantage, but not a bot.


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girlgamer
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Volly, Yes you are absolutely correct. Now will you please return to earth? AHK does so much more than just games.

I use it for website logins. I use it to order my groceries online. I use it for my banking issues and for gaming. I use it

to help moderate this board in the middle of the night when spammers come calling to identify and contain their bots

(so in that regard AHK is an Anti-bot bot). And others here can tell you tales of what they have used it for and, in fact,

already have. So yes your perception is your reality. It just doesn't happen to be the same reality that everyone else

here seems to inhabit. You say perception is reality but that only holds true when one's perception is restricted to that

which favors and supports one's own rigid formula for what reality actually is. AHK can take programming way beyond

that simple formula -- if you let it.

 

Red pill, Blue pill. The choice is yours.


The universe is a wondrous place! The faster you create unbreakable code, the faster the universe creates people that can break it. All scripting follows the rule Rule Of Twos -- 1) Good, 2) Fast 3) Cheap -- pick any Two.
I guarantee absolutely nothing about any code I provide except that it works in my machine. ●
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Volly
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We already have a zero tolerance for pranks (it's in a pinned topic)

same with malware, which is covered in that topic. ANYTHING malicious or annoying.

 

"website automation"... Who is going to make a database of every website stating that their EULA permits automation? That's not something we AHK mods can moderate. We are not required to learn the terms of every website ever made, ever. Most people don't even tell us their website, they just give us some HTML/spy info. So we don't know.

 

"code injection"... That's really a case-by-case thing. Injecting JS into an activex control to trigger a button press? Inject some code to add custom menus/buttons into a program? That's fine. If it's malicious, we already cover those things in a zero-tolerance pinned topic, and it'll be removed asap.

 

"CAPTCHA automation, anti-bot agents, software activation without proper license" ... Never seen anyone do these with AHK. Do people make software cracks in ahk? yes, probably. But those are usually on crack/gen communities, highly doubt there are any on here. We do not moderate the whole internet, we stay on this domain name.

 

"AHK is used mainly to bot games" ... you keep saying that but we keep showing otherwise. Where are your stats that "AHK is only for gamers, the majority of AHK is used as bots". Only 3% of the posts are about games, even fewer are bots. Burst-fire pistols are not a bot. It's an advantage, but not a bot.

 

Few things - first you show a site that is C+ language based and supports gaming. THERE ARE MANY SITES THAT DISCUSS C+. I could put up 50 sites that discuss C+ and they would not discuss gaming. Remember - There is one main site that discuss AHK so that is a big fat FAIL.

 

second -

 

I give up trying to get you to see how foolish this community is acting toward gaming and how they thiink it does not harm the reputation of AHK.

 

You guys want to be treated the way you are NOW then have at it.  I will bet the house that in 5 years time you will be no closer to your goal of being taken seriously in the corporate world than you are right now. (which is what I've told you over and over isn't good and you wish to put your hands to your ears and cover your eyes.) Feel free to book mark this and check back from time to time and ask why you are not getting to this goal you seem to want yet you keep shooting yourself in the foot. It is YOUR reputation after all and you are doing this to yourself by acting this way. Do as you like.

 

edit: BTW - how long has AHK been around and it still ISN'T being taken seriously by the business world and AV companies? That long huh? and threads like this are made asking "WHY??????"  You REALLY want to know WHY is that?

 

Be careful what you ask. It is painfully obvious you do not like the answer, I can see in this case you want sunshine blown up your backside and when someone tells you the truth, you don't like it.

 

 

Last thing - Your an admin and you say that making a script that makse a gun rapid fire is NOT a bot? FACEPALM.

 

ANY SCRIPT THAT IS RAN TO GAIN ADVANTAGE IN A GAME IS WHAT BOTTING IS.  Put another way - botting is the practice of using a script, program, or a hack of an existing program provided by the makers of the game that automates a task or actions in the game to gain advantage over other players directly or indirectly.

 

OMG. I can't believe I have to comment on that and you are an admin in this place. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

 

edit2: I see dropbox is flagging AHK scripts too! http://www.autohotke...mpiled-scripts/

 

Seeing how you are an admin and I see a moderator chimed in I wish to give you a project. It is really simple one. Contact the major AV companies around the world. Do NOT tell them who you are but present yourself as a reporter trying to find out the stance of different computer languages and how they are treated by the AV companies. Watch what happens when you ask them about AHK. You WILL not like what they tell you. I should know. I've done this for other languages and it was a very unplesent experience. And no before you ask, I'm NOT going to share my results for you REFUSE to listen to me. Since you are being such a hard headed &(*@ ...You need to find out yourself.

 

Reputation people. That is the point here. If you refuse to understand that and argue things like "only 3% is gaming" and other nonsense like that then you are who people say you are. Have fun. I'm out.


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girlgamer
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Dear Volly, Enjoy your "out". Having hijacked a perfectly good discussion on the merits of AutoHotkey for business use you should feel

quite proud of yourself. Like I said in an earlier post, If AV companies attempt to dictate to businesses what software they can and cannot

use for their own daily business purposes they will soon find themselves out of business customers. Talk to the people who REALLY

recommend which AV suites to use for daily business operations -- The IT Staff. But then you already knew that and simply choose

to ignore it. Good luck with your rant. 


The universe is a wondrous place! The faster you create unbreakable code, the faster the universe creates people that can break it. All scripting follows the rule Rule Of Twos -- 1) Good, 2) Fast 3) Cheap -- pick any Two.
I guarantee absolutely nothing about any code I provide except that it works in my machine. ●
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Volly
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Correction - I didn't hijack it. I told you the truth to the question asked and it is ON THE SUBJECT OF THE THREAD. Hi-jacking of a thread is changing the topic of the thread. Last I checked THIS DISCUSSION was on: "Reasons why enterprises do not use AHK " which is EXACTLY what my post are about. The FACT is you disagree. That is fine however get your facts straight.
http://www.urbandict...hread Hijacking
 
 
edit - even girlgamer signatior links (and she is a moderator) promote what the corporate world hates.
 
shaking my head here....
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girlgamer
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I am a gamer and i make neither excuses nor apologies for that. I spent my time in corporate programming and engineering

in a ton of other "mainstream" languages. I'm now retired and that gives me the freedom to pursue my heart's hobby -- MMO

games. Along with being retired military and having a number of "service connected" disabilities I use AutoHotkey to help me

remain connected and competitive in the games I play. Unattended botting is not what I do and i don't recommend people do

that particular activity -- I stay engaged in the game for as long as i can -- usually around 2 hours. Without the automation that

AutoHotkey provides i would not be able to stay in a game session for more than 10-15 minutes. If AV decides that my use of

scripting to remain competitive with a high functioning teenager with the reflexes of a mongoose, is ill served then, well so

much for that game. I will move my focus somewhere else and let people know that the game is hostile to those with disabilities.

In effect that's exactly what the game devs intend by blocking scripting in general instead of going after the losers that abuse

the system through offline autobotting and gold farming. But then you have made your position clear.

 

You have staked out a position where a limited subset of scripting applications is used to define the validity and range of the

language used to implement those apps. That's what you see and that's your focus and it's all good but it's wrong. If you are

as intelligent as i believe you are you know it too. 

 

"Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him to fish and he'll eat for the rest of his life." I believe that's the quote you're

looking for


The universe is a wondrous place! The faster you create unbreakable code, the faster the universe creates people that can break it. All scripting follows the rule Rule Of Twos -- 1) Good, 2) Fast 3) Cheap -- pick any Two.
I guarantee absolutely nothing about any code I provide except that it works in my machine. ●
MMO Fighter   KeyLooperDemo   Key Spammer   TinyClickRecorder  GGs Password Generator.ahk
For the newest version of AutoHotkey and some killer scripts go here.
Rock-on%20kitten.gif