Jump to content

Sky Slate Blueberry Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate
Photo

Make AHK_L "main" version?


  • Please log in to reply
112 replies to this topic

Poll: Should AHK_L be promoted as "the" main version of AutoHotkey? (128 member(s) have cast votes)

Should AHK_L be promoted as "the" main version of AutoHotkey?

  1. Voted YES (I use AHK_L) (201 votes [76.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 76.14%

  2. YES (I use AutoHotkey Basic) (24 votes [9.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

  3. NO (I use AHK_L) (8 votes [3.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.03%

  4. NO (I use AutoHotkey Basic) (24 votes [9.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

  5. Other... (please comment) (7 votes [2.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.65%

Vote Guests cannot vote
ABCza
  • Members
  • 132 posts
  • Last active: Jan 04 2015 01:02 AM
  • Joined: 03 Jun 2008

But one more word about the name "AHK Basic".
In most germans speech comprehension, something is very simple, incomplete and incapable, if we call it a "Basic" version. Don't complain! You've got, what you payed for. This is just for the poor. You know, what I mean? ;)

A least from my point of view "AHK Classic" would be the better name. If something is "Classic" it was/is great. Old, but even durable. Yeah, sure, it's a bit out of date, but still good ;)



AHK Classic. Sounds good :D
All my scripts/snippets are released under the WTFPL: http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/COPYING

LarryC
  • Guests
  • Last active:
  • Joined: --
I do believe having "Hotkey" as part of the name undermines AutoHotkey for what it is. As a result it may be hold it back from being more acceptable, not to mention it completely and utterly misrepresents AutoHotkey for what it is.
Renaming AutoHotkey to AHK is one method, maybe the simplest way to remove the "Hotkey".
AutoScipt has a nice ring to it. Seems to represent the essence of AutoHotkey, and as they say "sexier".

sinkfaze
  • Moderators
  • 6367 posts
  • Last active: Nov 30 2018 08:50 PM
  • Joined: 18 Mar 2008

AutoScipt has a nice ring to it. Seems to represent the essence of AutoHotkey, and as they say "sexier".


It also sits a little too close to the web address of one of our competitors for my tastes. There's already enough bad blood without picking one more thing they can claim AHK stole from them.

Zaelia
  • Members
  • 754 posts
  • Last active: Jan 17 2015 02:38 AM
  • Joined: 31 Oct 2008
They are ton of sexyname , but generally they are already used or too close of other project. For example <!-- m -->http://www.softpedia... ... tKey.shtml<!-- m -->
I want a better name of course, but the choice (final decision) is only for Lexikos...
"You annoy me, therefore I exist."

wtg
  • Members
  • 251 posts
  • Last active: Dec 19 2012 03:54 PM
  • Joined: 04 Oct 2006
It's interesting to see that I'm not the only one that thinks the AutoHotkey name itself has hindered the product.

I'm not sure exactly why but the name has always struck me as trivializing to the product, and like LarryC and nimda, was a little embarrassed to tell people what some of my utilities were developed with. I was afraid they might dismiss it simply because the name makes it sound like a toy when in reality it's quite a capable and remarkable piece of software. I've never been able to put my finger on why the name strikes me that way - why it sounds so unprofessional - but I'm curious how many other users feel similarly.

I like the AutoScript suggestion a lot, though understand it might lead to some confusion too. On the other hand, it's not like AutoIt and AutoHotkey don't share the same roots. I also like the idea of using the AHK moniker alone as well.

Heck, I don't think a complete re-branding with v2 would be so bad given that there are going to be significant compatibility issues going from basic to v2. I think you could argue a name change is warranted.

fragman
  • Members
  • 1591 posts
  • Last active: Nov 12 2012 08:51 PM
  • Joined: 13 Oct 2009
As a reply to polyethene's post I'd like to first congrat you for going live with the new page. However, I heavily disagree with the promotion of the old AutoHotkey version. What's the point in this? I think the results of this poll also show clearly what most users think.

I agree with and welcome all other changes though.

fincs
  • Moderators
  • 1662 posts
  • Last active:
  • Joined: 05 May 2007
The recent homepage changes rename AutoHotkey Basic back to AutoHotkey (which has not been updated since 2009) and make no mention at all of AutoHotkey_L, which is the version that in my humble opinion should get the attention, focus and promotion. Seeing this, I posted a complaint to the thread in the Announcement forum, but it got rather quickly deleted.

I am sure that many users share my view, and this action is a sign of disrespect to all the work the AutoHotkey_L developers (especially Lexikos) have put into the project in order to improve and keep alive the development of this fantastic application.

I am disappointed by the handling of this issue. If the site administrators have no intention of changing this, I will have no option but to consider leaving this wonderful community :(

fincs
  • Moderators
  • 1662 posts
  • Last active:
  • Joined: 05 May 2007

I heavily disagree with the promotion of the old AutoHotkey version. What's the point in this? I think the results of this poll also show clearly what most users think.

I also heavily disagree with that. In order not to hijack the discussion, I've made a new thread.

nimda
  • Members
  • 4368 posts
  • Last active: Aug 09 2015 02:36 AM
  • Joined: 26 Dec 2010

I am disappointed by the handling of this issue. If the site administrators have no intention of changing this, I will have no option but to consider leaving this wonderful community :(

I am of precisely the same opinion.

polyethene
  • Members
  • 5519 posts
  • Last active: May 17 2015 06:39 AM
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2012

As a reply to polyethene's post I'd like to first congrat you for going live with the new page. However, I heavily disagree with the promotion of the old AutoHotkey version. What's the point in this? I think the results of this poll also show clearly what most users think.


Thank you for the kind words.

Regarding the version change, the poll on this thread is not indicative of what most users think. In actual fact this pie chart is representative of what all users who viewed this thread think:

Posted Image

I would very much like for AutoHotkey to gain the traction and popularity it once had. For this to happen I decided to back to the grass roots and target AutoHotkey to a non-programmer audience, hence the change with the download pages.

The people with opinionated views on this thread have had months to demonstrate the benefits of promoting AHK_L, yet it remains a niche within a niche and has created tensions in the community. I don't want to take away from Lexikos' time and effort, and greatly respect the work he does. However I believe this new system will benefit everyone in the long run.

autohotkey.com/net Site Manager

 

Contact me by email (polyethene at autohotkey.net) or message tidbit


fincs
  • Moderators
  • 1662 posts
  • Last active:
  • Joined: 05 May 2007

I would very much like for AutoHotkey to gain the traction and popularity it once had. For this to happen I decided to back to the grass roots and target AutoHotkey to a non-programmer audience, hence the change with the download pages.

It's of course desirable for AutoHotkey to be popular. But returning to an old version is going to fool people into thinking that AutoHotkey can't do things that AutoHotkey_L can already do, such as COM (very important for IE automation) and Unicode (very important for non-Western people); and instead drive them off the product, causing the opposite effect.

nimda
  • Members
  • 4368 posts
  • Last active: Aug 09 2015 02:36 AM
  • Joined: 26 Dec 2010
I believe this will hurt everyone.
There are at least 13 threads in the first 3 pages of Scripts & Functions which require AutoHotkey_L. So when a newbie downloads AHK and runs a script from the forums, it won't work. They might give up then, or they might ask why it doesn't work. Then they won't be able to get it to work, because AutoHotkey_L is unavailable. At that point or sooner, the vast majority will give up.

Google this: site:www.autohotkey.com/forum intitle:(AHK_L|Class)

About 827 results

Given that not all are threads containing scripts requiring AHK_L, I estimate that that's 800 scripts which WON'T WORK. (Anyone is free to count them manually and prove otherwise, but remember Ask For Help posts count if they contain code.)

Didn't vote / Don't care

Didn't vote != Don't care.
If the thread had a "I don't care" option in the poll, it would not receive 96% of the vote. Most visitors simply didn't vote.
Furthermore, Didn't vote != AHK Basic. Just because someone didn't vote doesn't mean that they support your side of the argument.

Finally, have you forgotten this thread?

Therefore I've altered the website to give AutoHotkey_L more of the attention it deserves (most importantly the download page).
...
As time goes on, the site statistics (download demand) can help determine whether the site should be reoriented more toward AutoHotkey_L. In any case, I'd like everyone to feel free to use the entire forum for either version of AutoHotkey.


Can we see some of those stats?

Out of visitors that visit the downloads page and download either version, 62% download AHK_L, 38% download AHK_Basic. For whatever that is worth.

Not an overwhelming majority, but the downloads page back then was very unclear and unhelpful as to which version to choose. I'd like to see stats after ahkbook's excellent description is on the download page.

___

I was going to suggest a poll, but that has already happened with the votes 76+% in favor of AutoHotkey_L, and its results have been ignored.

polyethene
  • Members
  • 5519 posts
  • Last active: May 17 2015 06:39 AM
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2012

returning to an old version is going to fool people into thinking that AutoHotkey can't do things that AutoHotkey_L can already do, such as COM (very important for IE automation) and Unicode (very important for non-Western people)

AutoHotkey is stable, not old. After years of testing it is among the most rock-solid software packages available on the internet.

COM is a deprecated technology which may not exist (in full) from Windows 8. If your code relies on it or IE for automation then chances are you're going about things in a very wrong way. The only valid argument you've mentioned is for Unicode, but this is not a high priority since AutoHotkey is almost exclusively used by a Western audience.

Didn't vote != Don't care.

The label was "didn't vote or don't care."

So when a newbie downloads AHK and runs a script from the forums, it won't work. They might give up then, or they might ask why it doesn't work. Then they won't be able to get it to work, because AutoHotkey_L is unavailable. At that point or sooner, the vast majority will give up.

The situation you have presented is at best a cynical one, if not completely unrealistic. The relatively tiny percentage of AHK_L threads are all clearly marked and the users browsing those threads will be directed to AHK_L downloads, which are still available on the website and on the forums.

Finally the hysteria about quitting over this change is very selfish - nobody speaks of the numerous highly respected members who have left since the switch to AHK_L. Positive discussion and constructive criticism is welcome but trolling is not acceptable, so any defamatory posts will be deleted.

autohotkey.com/net Site Manager

 

Contact me by email (polyethene at autohotkey.net) or message tidbit


nimda
  • Members
  • 4368 posts
  • Last active: Aug 09 2015 02:36 AM
  • Joined: 26 Dec 2010

COM is a deprecated technology which may not exist (in full) from Windows 8. If your code relies on it or IE for automation then chances are you're going about things in a very wrong way.

Please show me another way than COM to automate websites with a usable web browser.
Show me another way than COM to embed a browser inside a GUI.


Didn't vote != Don't care.

The label was "didn't vote or don't care."

Yes, but how do you know that those who didn't vote didn't care?

which are still available on the website and on the forums.

Still available on the main website? I don't think so

Positive discussion and constructive criticism is welcome but trolling is not acceptable, so any defamatory posts will be deleted.

This is a reasonable standpoint, but I fear that valid arguments will be deleted because a moderator perceives them to be trolling.

Just fyi, you can't effectively tell someone's tone of voice from written text. See: <!-- m -->http://www.nytimes.c...jobs/07pre.html<!-- m -->



Rseding91
  • Members
  • 703 posts
  • Last active: Apr 02 2016 05:05 AM
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2010
This is going to be rather blunt so please don't take it as a hate post.

The people who worked on AHK_L did it for fun and because they wanted to. At no point that I am aware of did any of them do it for money/prestige and they probably don't care if the AHK main page has the basic-only download link.

If Lexikos really cared what the download page showed he would probably have posted something about it by now in one of the topics: <!-- m -->http://www.autohotke... ... or=Lexikos<!-- m -->

It's not insulting anyone to have the download page show AHK basic as the only download link.

Also, leaving over this issue seems like a rather stupid idea. It effects nothing - novice programmers don't know ANY difference between basic and _L. Experienced programmers will pick up on it quickly or use a different language.