Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

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tank
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

08 Jul 2017, 17:29

guest3456 wrote: is a hammer manufacturer less reputable because some people choose to use it to smash windows?
If they have examples of breaking other peoples windows in their site and adverts then yes it makes them less reputable.
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evilC
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

12 Jul 2017, 07:46

The C analogy is not a good one IMHO.
If C had an official forum with a gaming section, and on occasion over half the threads on the front page were hacks, then yes people would associate C with hacks.
It is also impossible to "ban" a C executable, whilst it is entirely possible (And is already happening) for games to refuse to run if AHK is running (Regardless of whether the script has anything to do with the game or not).

But yes, you are correct, I am not advocating complete banning of knowledge transfer in this area, I am advocating banning distribution of finished scripts that fit certain criteria.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

12 Jul 2017, 09:03

I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here, for no purpose other than to add a different perspective.

I do not agree that writing malware is inappropriate. In fact, by doing so, it give better insight in protecting your own code or system. However, distributing such code would be inappropriate, including if someone has requested it for the same purpose of learning. In such a case, the original coder should do a detailed write-up of it and send/distribute that. Doing so will allow people to be aware of the possible vulnerabilities. If someone takes to recreating it, that's of their own volition.

Regarding games.. they're just software. Nothing more, nothing less. You interact with it, it manipulates data, etc., just like any other program. Now, if it's an online game, then there are other people involved (obviously). If someone can write code to enhance their experience or create an advantage in a game, that's technically a skill.. unless it's not their own code. I personally wouldn't share such code online, though I see no problem with people collaborating on it; joint efforts usually create better, more refined code. Whether or not they should be on these forums..

And in regards to "developers banning AHK in their games:" at a point, I used a bandwidth limiter to prioritize certain processes over others, so some would only trickle, but still be running. Bandwidth limiters are often used to "lag switch" in games, and as such, many games wouldn't initially run because I had it running. Their protection is weak, at best; it was incredibly easy to bypass any protection that wouldn't allow it. And, all the bypasses were written in AHK. Sure, it's an extra step, but I wasn't going to sacrifice the system I had in place for a game. Once I had them written though, that was it, no more problems with that game again. And before someone asks, no, I'm not saying we should or shouldn't have protection bypass scripts on the forum. I'm saying that if the situation comes up, the person can take their own initiative to write a bypass, or compromise by not playing the game or not running AHK/any program it's blocking.

Regarding the link to Blizzard suing Bossland: that's largely out of context of this situation. That involved monetary gain, which isn't inherently illegal, but as far as I'm aware, it's an agreed rule on these forums to disallow posts that advertise paid products, which is something I strongly stand by. These forums are for open source learning and sharing, not closed source selling.

Whatever the decision is, please notify all mods so we're all on the same page.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

12 Jul 2017, 15:33

just a thought.
C is very hack-associated, just not so much gaming ;)
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

12 Jul 2017, 15:35

Masonjar13 wrote:Whatever the decision is, please notify all mods so we're all on the same page.

There will be a poll w/ a date/notice.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

14 Jul 2017, 14:53

tank wrote:Not policing on behalf of other providers but keeping us with being known as a reputable, legit, ethical organization. we cant pretend to police on behalf of anyone else. we are policing on behalf of our own perception of right and wrong.

just me wrote:Exactly!

Nextron wrote:Simple. :thumbup:

If the intent is to remove any association of AutoHotkey Foundation with "game botters", "game cheaters" and etc., there should be a restriction on all scripts that alter somehow online gameplay, even including single player games that have online "high score" database. Also, keep in mind that it will bring extra work for moderators that will need to check every gaming related script for compliance to these rules. Are there enough moderators to check every gaming related script?

Also what about memory scanning in software (non-gaming)? Is it considered as reverse engineering of someone's software? Is it ok?

Also what about if the author of software will ask to remove the script that automates his software but he does not want that kind of script to be available? Should that kind of script removed from forums?

What about this script? Google does not officially allow the use of Google Suggestions in third party software. How ethical is to allow such scripts? Should this kind of scripts been removed?
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

14 Jul 2017, 17:16

Good point, many ahk scripts all use "hacks" or reserve-engineered methods... :b
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

15 Jul 2017, 00:56

joedf wrote:Good point, many ahk scripts all use "hacks" or reserve-engineered methods... :b

But only in rare cases it's other users that are massively affected by it.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

15 Jul 2017, 01:23

nnnik wrote:
joedf wrote:Good point, many ahk scripts all use "hacks" or reserve-engineered methods... :b

But only in rare cases it's other users that are massively affected by it.

It is very hard to measure the degree of users affection by the script and based on that decide to allow script or not.
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vasili111
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

15 Jul 2017, 01:47

joedf wrote:Good point, many ahk scripts all use "hacks" or reserve-engineered methods... :b

Exactly. That is why it is hard to distinguish "good" from "bad".
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nnnik
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

15 Jul 2017, 04:44

vasili111 wrote:
nnnik wrote:
joedf wrote:Good point, many ahk scripts all use "hacks" or reserve-engineered methods... :b

But only in rare cases it's other users that are massively affected by it.

It is very hard to measure the degree of users affection by the script and based on that decide to allow script or not.

Well I think in this case it's pretty simple. Anything that falls under the hack for multiplayer games category will affect other users.
Anybody that reverse engineers his own copy of Excel probably won't harm Excels users in general.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

15 Jul 2017, 09:17

Simplify it to "unfair" advantage?
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tidbit
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

15 Jul 2017, 12:10

I don't think
"it will bring extra work for moderators that will need to check every gaming related script for compliance to these rules."
is accurate.

Usually people make it quite clear in the title or description, like 'CSGO BHOP' or a list of things it does, such as "you can wallhack, spin, auto-qq, infinite money" or "custom highscore number".
I guess if the game is some random unheard of indie game we might have to go look it up if it has multiplayer, but those are far and few between.

there's no need to study the code of every script, gaming or not.

then again, I also stay out of the gaming sections and stick mostly to irc. sooo... yeah.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

16 Jul 2017, 19:11

moderation is a responsibility yes, if it's too overwhelming it's understandable... we're all volunteers with some spare time. That said we do carefully pick our moderators. And they offer help not service. The important point is to determine whether or not something should be moderated and if so how. Not how much work it is, since the community is always growing. ;)

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