Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

Discussion about the AutoHotkey Foundation and this website
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tank
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

08 Jul 2017, 17:29

guest3456 wrote: is a hammer manufacturer less reputable because some people choose to use it to smash windows?
If they have examples of breaking other peoples windows in their site and adverts then yes it makes them less reputable.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

12 Jul 2017, 07:46

The C analogy is not a good one IMHO.
If C had an official forum with a gaming section, and on occasion over half the threads on the front page were hacks, then yes people would associate C with hacks.
It is also impossible to "ban" a C executable, whilst it is entirely possible (And is already happening) for games to refuse to run if AHK is running (Regardless of whether the script has anything to do with the game or not).

But yes, you are correct, I am not advocating complete banning of knowledge transfer in this area, I am advocating banning distribution of finished scripts that fit certain criteria.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

12 Jul 2017, 09:03

I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here, for no purpose other than to add a different perspective.

I do not agree that writing malware is inappropriate. In fact, by doing so, it give better insight in protecting your own code or system. However, distributing such code would be inappropriate, including if someone has requested it for the same purpose of learning. In such a case, the original coder should do a detailed write-up of it and send/distribute that. Doing so will allow people to be aware of the possible vulnerabilities. If someone takes to recreating it, that's of their own volition.

Regarding games.. they're just software. Nothing more, nothing less. You interact with it, it manipulates data, etc., just like any other program. Now, if it's an online game, then there are other people involved (obviously). If someone can write code to enhance their experience or create an advantage in a game, that's technically a skill.. unless it's not their own code. I personally wouldn't share such code online, though I see no problem with people collaborating on it; joint efforts usually create better, more refined code. Whether or not they should be on these forums..

And in regards to "developers banning AHK in their games:" at a point, I used a bandwidth limiter to prioritize certain processes over others, so some would only trickle, but still be running. Bandwidth limiters are often used to "lag switch" in games, and as such, many games wouldn't initially run because I had it running. Their protection is weak, at best; it was incredibly easy to bypass any protection that wouldn't allow it. And, all the bypasses were written in AHK. Sure, it's an extra step, but I wasn't going to sacrifice the system I had in place for a game. Once I had them written though, that was it, no more problems with that game again. And before someone asks, no, I'm not saying we should or shouldn't have protection bypass scripts on the forum. I'm saying that if the situation comes up, the person can take their own initiative to write a bypass, or compromise by not playing the game or not running AHK/any program it's blocking.

Regarding the link to Blizzard suing Bossland: that's largely out of context of this situation. That involved monetary gain, which isn't inherently illegal, but as far as I'm aware, it's an agreed rule on these forums to disallow posts that advertise paid products, which is something I strongly stand by. These forums are for open source learning and sharing, not closed source selling.

Whatever the decision is, please notify all mods so we're all on the same page.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

12 Jul 2017, 15:33

just a thought.
C is very hack-associated, just not so much gaming ;)
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

12 Jul 2017, 15:35

Masonjar13 wrote:Whatever the decision is, please notify all mods so we're all on the same page.

There will be a poll w/ a date/notice.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

14 Jul 2017, 14:53

tank wrote:Not policing on behalf of other providers but keeping us with being known as a reputable, legit, ethical organization. we cant pretend to police on behalf of anyone else. we are policing on behalf of our own perception of right and wrong.

just me wrote:Exactly!

Nextron wrote:Simple. :thumbup:

If the intent is to remove any association of AutoHotkey Foundation with "game botters", "game cheaters" and etc., there should be a restriction on all scripts that alter somehow online gameplay, even including single player games that have online "high score" database. Also, keep in mind that it will bring extra work for moderators that will need to check every gaming related script for compliance to these rules. Are there enough moderators to check every gaming related script?

Also what about memory scanning in software (non-gaming)? Is it considered as reverse engineering of someone's software? Is it ok?

Also what about if the author of software will ask to remove the script that automates his software but he does not want that kind of script to be available? Should that kind of script removed from forums?

What about this script? Google does not officially allow the use of Google Suggestions in third party software. How ethical is to allow such scripts? Should this kind of scripts been removed?
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

14 Jul 2017, 17:16

Good point, many ahk scripts all use "hacks" or reserve-engineered methods... :b
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

15 Jul 2017, 00:56

joedf wrote:Good point, many ahk scripts all use "hacks" or reserve-engineered methods... :b

But only in rare cases it's other users that are massively affected by it.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

15 Jul 2017, 01:23

nnnik wrote:
joedf wrote:Good point, many ahk scripts all use "hacks" or reserve-engineered methods... :b

But only in rare cases it's other users that are massively affected by it.

It is very hard to measure the degree of users affection by the script and based on that decide to allow script or not.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

15 Jul 2017, 01:47

joedf wrote:Good point, many ahk scripts all use "hacks" or reserve-engineered methods... :b

Exactly. That is why it is hard to distinguish "good" from "bad".
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

15 Jul 2017, 04:44

vasili111 wrote:
nnnik wrote:
joedf wrote:Good point, many ahk scripts all use "hacks" or reserve-engineered methods... :b

But only in rare cases it's other users that are massively affected by it.

It is very hard to measure the degree of users affection by the script and based on that decide to allow script or not.

Well I think in this case it's pretty simple. Anything that falls under the hack for multiplayer games category will affect other users.
Anybody that reverse engineers his own copy of Excel probably won't harm Excels users in general.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

15 Jul 2017, 09:17

Simplify it to "unfair" advantage?
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

15 Jul 2017, 12:10

I don't think
"it will bring extra work for moderators that will need to check every gaming related script for compliance to these rules."
is accurate.

Usually people make it quite clear in the title or description, like 'CSGO BHOP' or a list of things it does, such as "you can wallhack, spin, auto-qq, infinite money" or "custom highscore number".
I guess if the game is some random unheard of indie game we might have to go look it up if it has multiplayer, but those are far and few between.

there's no need to study the code of every script, gaming or not.

then again, I also stay out of the gaming sections and stick mostly to irc. sooo... yeah.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

16 Jul 2017, 19:11

moderation is a responsibility yes, if it's too overwhelming it's understandable... we're all volunteers with some spare time. That said we do carefully pick our moderators. And they offer help not service. The important point is to determine whether or not something should be moderated and if so how. Not how much work it is, since the community is always growing. ;)
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

23 Jul 2017, 03:31

evilC wrote:I am not entirely sure I understand what you mean joe? From my interpretation of what you said, my previous list seems to fit that bill? Are we just seeking to tighten up and finalize some bullet points?

I have tweaked my previous list to try and clarify what is and is not OK.

  • No script that manipulates your aim point while firing in a way that is not proportional to your input (eg "No Recoil") or aims / shoots for you ("Aim Bot" / "Trigger Bot").
  • No script that glitches out character animations etc for the purposes of making you harder to hit (eg "Bunny Hop").
  • No script that allows you to see things that would normally be obscured (eg "Wall Hacks") or that artificially inject maps / radars.

Hate to pop in unannounced, but I must correct you on one of your bullet points.
"Bunnyhop" or bhop for short, is most commonly done in Source engine games to gain a slight speed advantage over everyone else by executing the "jump" command the same tick that the player lands on the ground. If anything, it should be considered a speed cheat. FYI- I'm pretty sure every bhop script on here is unreliable anyways since it doesn't read memory.
What you might be thinking of is AntiAim, also known as "spinbot" by some, which has the purpose of moving the player's model/hitbox in a way that makes them more difficult to hit by another player.
I suggest you correct your bullet point to fit that criteria as to avoid confusion.

EDIT: If for whatever reason you moderators decide on banning scripts that "give players an unfair advantage that also go against our ethic interpretation," I made a list that states the criteria that will fall under what you all have been agreeing on what is to be considered "cheating":
Note:
"Player" is used here to mean any human using a script and playing a video game.
Reading and writing memory also applies to dll injection.

A script is considered a "cheat" when it:

  • Automatically aims for the player that is not proportional to the player's input, whether via mouse_event calls or memory writing.
  • Automatically compensates for recoil present with a gun, via mouse_event calls or memory writing.
  • Automatically fires for the player that is not proportional to the player's input, which may be a script that shoots quickly or a script that shoots automatically to give the player an inhuman-like reaction time, via mouse_event calls or memory reading or writing.
  • Gives the player a speed advantage by automatically sending a command at a specific time or in a specific time frame that cannot be normally detected by humans, via spamming a key or memory reading or writing
  • Gives the player a speed advantage by other means, via memory reading/writing or packet manipulation.
  • Gives the player vision assistance, or visible information not normally visible in normal play, such as wallhack, ESP, chams/chameloen skins, tracers, NoSmoke, NoFlash, or radar hacks, via memory reading/writing, modifications of software provided with the graphics card, or PixelSearch functions.
  • Manipulates the player's model or hitbox to give a disadvantage to those aiming at the player by making them unhittable or difficult to hit, such as antiaim, spinbot, or lag switches, via memory reading/writing, mouse_event calls, firewall, or packet manipulation.
  • Constantly changes the player's in game name as to avoid a vote kicking/banning system.
  • Constantly sends a message to other players as to annoy them or distract them, via sending keystrokes or memory writing.
  • Automatically completes an objective that normally takes an unavoidable amount of time, such as planting a bomb, defusing a bomb, or capturing an objective or flag, via memory reading/writing or packet manipulation.
  • Teleports the player, or puts the player's in game model in an unhittable or difficult to hit spot, such as AirStuck, via memory reading/writing or packet manipulation.
  • Automatically strafes for the player to correspond with mouse movement, as to gain speed, via memory reading/writing, or reading the mouse position.
  • Gives the player perfect weapon accuracy, via memory reading/writing.
  • Automatically disconnects the player when the player's health reaches a certain level or after a certain amount of time, via memory reading/writing, mouse_event calls, or PixelSearch function.
  • Crashes another player's game, computer, or internet via memory reading/writing, packet manipulation, or DDoSing.
  • Duplicates or generates any form of in game asset, whether being as a cosmetic, form of currency, or gun pattern/skin artificially via memory reading/writing or packet manipulation.
  • Shows an in-game item differently to the player than as to others, such as a skin changer, via memory reading/writing, packet manipulation, or file manipulation.
  • Gives the player a different perspective of the game, such as a third-person view, via memory reading or writing.
  • Changes the player's health via memory reading/writing or packet manipulation.
  • Avoids damage, such as damage from other players or fall damage, via memory reading/writing or packet manipulation.
  • Automatically stops player movement to avoid weapon inaccuracy, via sending keystrokes or memory reading/writing.
  • Avoids any form of anti-cheat or auto-kicking feature provided in the game, via mouse_event calls, sending keystrokes, or memory reading/writing.

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