Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

Discussion about the AutoHotkey Foundation and this website
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evilC
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Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

08 Apr 2017, 09:35

This has gone on long enough, we need to distance ourselves from this.

Another case of someone downloading a compiled AHK exe that is ostensibly a CS:GO cheat, and is infected by some nastiness.

All the more believable because half of the gaming scripts forum threads are about CS:GO cheats.

This also does not help us with AV flagging AHK as bad, because it is associated with this ass-hattery.

I say we ban outright cheats that have a significant negative impact on other players (bhop, aimbot, no-recoil etc) and put a stickied thread warning people not to trust compiled AHK cheats.

Sure, we are not going to break the association overnight, but I feel that we have to do something.
just me
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

08 Apr 2017, 10:14

Forum Posting

1. Do not ask for help with AutoIt scripts, post links to, or start discussion topics on the following subjects:
  • Malware of any form - trojan, virus, keylogger, spam tool, "joke/spoof" script, etc.
  • Bypassing of security measures - log-in and security dialogs, CAPTCHAs, anti-bot agents, software activation, etc.
  • Automation of software/sites contrary to their EULA (see Reporting bullet below).
  • Launching, automation or script interaction with games or game servers, regardless of the game.
  • Running or injecting any code (in any form) intended to alter the original functionality of another process.
  • Decompilation of AutoIt scripts or details of decompiler software.
This list is non-exhaustive - the Moderating team reserve the right to close any thread that they feel is contrary to the ethos of the forum.

Source: AutoIt Forum Rules
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evilC
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

08 Apr 2017, 11:03

just me wrote:
Forum Posting
[*]Launching, automation or script interaction with games or game servers, regardless of the game.
That seems a little excessive.

I don't particularly have a problem with all game automation

Some MMO AFK wood chopper or even MultiBoxing does not seem to be as huge an issue to me, but I suppose that is a grey area.
There is a very healthy scene around AHK and disabled gaming though, and outright banning of all gaming stuff would negatively impact that, so I would certainly vote against going that far.

My vote is for moving it from the current stance, which seems to be pretty much the wild west, to the edge of the grey area. Basically anything that we all agree is unsavory should be verboten, and I haven't seen any regular speaking up in defense of bhop / no-recoil etc.
just me
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

08 Apr 2017, 11:10

Other Features
  • Automate game actions by detecting images and pixel colors (this is intended for legitimate uses such as the alleviation of RSI).
Source: AutoHotkey.chm - 1.0.48.05
Features
  • Automating repetitive tasks in online games (often in violation of said games' terms of service).
Source: AutoHotkey (Wikipedia)
Obviously, something has changed somewhere along the way.
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nnnik
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

08 Apr 2017, 15:39

The author changed. The second statement is very manipulative and biased.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

08 Apr 2017, 21:02

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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just me
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

09 Apr 2017, 05:12

Well, let me try to explain my point of view.

All kinds of scripts for game manipulation are cheating (the German translation is "Betrug").

I don't think that AutoHotkey benefits from the 'reputation' to be a well-suited scripting language for game manipulation (cheating).

There were times you had to intall games on your computer and had to play on a closed system. At this times, players were cheating themselves only. At times of multi-player online games players still are cheating themselves, but also other players.

I've never been willing to support cheating. Also, I'm not willing (nor able, because I do not play games) to differentiate between 'good' and 'bad' cheating. So I'll keep my (moderator) hands off from every contents 'smelling' gaming related for me.
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nnnik
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

09 Apr 2017, 06:05

I can perfectly agree with this.
However AutoHotkey does not have any features to specifically cheat in games - it has features to manipulate already existing programs. This also involves cheating in games.
I am fine with banning any sort of cheating or automating web services against their terms of use, however we need to consider all the consequences.
That involves people leaving our forum/new people not joining/ a lower place on google etc.
As much as it annoys people to get branded as "cheat producers" ( or whatever you may call it ) towards us it might be the lesser of 2 evils.
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Exaskryz
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

09 Apr 2017, 08:52

I came up with this list last month as some (potentially) valid uses of using AHK with gaming. I ultimately agree that it is bad form to have players use AHK to get an advantage over other players.
I can give insight as to what you can use gaming forum for that isn't cheating.

Easy login. It can be annoying typing your username and password over and over, especially if you play multiple accounts. Having a simple hotkey for that is great. Especially if you play a game where the company asks you to change your password every 60 or 90 days; then you just update your script to your newest password and don't have to worry about keeping it straight which account is using what password.

Some players might use it to aid in recording videos. Rather than recording your entire match or having to manually remember to record, you might use PixelGetColor or even ImageSearch to check if the "Play of the Game" is about to happen, and to start recording then.

Related to PixelGetColor or ImageSearch, you might be able to make your own kill/death counter. If a certain part of the screen will have a certain pattern or show a unique color whenever you get a kill (like "Player A killed player B"), you can have an automatic count of your kills and deaths and display that in a GUI on your screen. That might be useful for someone who is recording or streaming videos to share with the public, rather than doing manual video edits in post-production.

And something simple for an overlay, while not specifically gaming related, is putting in a clock. A lot of games are played full screen, so you don't see the system time.

You might use it to quickly set options to optimize controls before you enter a match, or even during a match - maybe you want to play as a sniper with higher sensitivity to your mouse, but you don't have one of those fancy mice that let you set the DPI by pressing a particular button or spinning a particular wheel. This get a little borderline cheating if even the fancy mice are technically not allowed and you're replicating their quick in-game action, but if you can set options before a match, you might need it.

Speaking on other options you might set, say you create a room in an online game. The default is to play map A for 10 minutes. But you always make a room to play map N and play for 30 minutes. You can set a macro to set those two options right away, saving you some clicks. There's no advantage over other players doing something like that.

You might find parental control scripts for games. Something that monitors how many minutes/hours the game has been open, give a warning that the game will be closed in X minutes to let the player wrap up, and then close the game.
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evilC
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

09 Apr 2017, 12:25

All kinds of scripts for game manipulation are cheating
I have to strongly disagree. By that metric, ALL gamers that use AHK are cheaters (Including disabled ones that otherwise could not play without the AHK script).

Some AHK scripts that are not cheating:
  • Sniper mode type DPI switching (See MouseDelta) - Is this only allowed if you have a fancy mouse?
  • RollMouse (Steam controller does same thing). Would you consider a trackball cheating?
  • MWO Fire Control (Rapid Fire for game - devs put in fast firing weapons, but they do not work properly without macroing. Script is approved by devs)
  • Joystick to Mouse scripts (Used by lots of disabled people) - a distinct DISadvantage, but the only way they can sometimes play.
  • Remapping of keys in ways not supported by games (eg turn crouch from a momentary into a toggle)
  • Scripts that drive vJoy / vXBox to make unsupported controllers work with games, or to enable mappings not supported by games (eg shift states for buttons etc)
These are just a few off the top of my head.
swagfag
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

09 Apr 2017, 12:31

evilC wrote:...compiled AHK exe...
So have them post the source and prohibit external links, instead.
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evilC
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

09 Apr 2017, 12:39

Are we saying that you should be able to get to the source, or that it needs to be in a post in it's entirety?
Cause I do not see the latter working.
Also not sure where this leaves me and the C# DLLs that I post...
A_AhkUser
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

09 Apr 2017, 14:18

evilC wrote:have a significant negative impact on other players
And ain't sure it concerns only the other players but the player itself.

Actually, it strange to see that, and althought it's more newsworthy than ever to present video games like a source of
'psychological' benefits for the players (believing by this mean breaking up fundamentally with the conservatism that
presented video games as "source" of the violence, underperforming at school etc. -- for a society that always try to hide
itself the real source of violences and inequalities or conversely happiness, equality...) these ones indulge themselves let machine play "instead of" them...

I offer as exemple of this new context, interpreting video games as panacea, the myriad of scientifical studies
that prove the "positive influence" of video games on our brain - which is all the more dubious since it appears would you believe
now that video game industry is making colossals benefits... Who really take benefit, in this case, from playing games?

One say that precisly the players in question, cheating, are cheating just for making money, benefits.
Yet it is precisly this cynicism that cause a problem. I mean today it is almost as we have to forgive ourselves not playing games, but, in the same time, it is more and more complicated "entertain" oneself with insouciance without the need to justify ourselves playing games (with the help of scientifical studies as above, claiming playing "serious" games for exemple and so on)...

Besides, nobody seems to pay attention in this sense to the success of the 'Let's play', for exemple, on Youtube. The more remarkable in this phenomenon
isn't it that someone play "instead of" me? And fundamentaly what does it means 'play', 'enjoy'?

As far as I remember when I was playing games when I was child I play and it was soo cool -- 'in itself' no doubt but I can't also not remember
that each day during the break at school I was sharing with my friends about the games I played and really can't finally say why I played retrospectively: for me
or share with others -- no need to be sociologist to see that... although...

What's happen when somebody cannot enjoy onself no more with a video game, reading a book, watching a film, listening a music etc.?
Generally he just possess the video game, the film, the music on a hardisk, on its bookcase but never listen, play, read it, keeping it as sign of a past that no longer exists.

One can also start writing ahk script that play instead of him.
[url=https://autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=56&p=215673#p215673][b][font=Segoe UI][color=#1ea2db]Video Game[/color] [color=#bbbbbb]Reader[/color][/font][/b][/url] eAutocomplete

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nnnik
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

09 Apr 2017, 15:22

swagfag wrote:
evilC wrote:...compiled AHK exe...
So have them post the source and prohibit external links, instead.
This is not an option as many scripts far exceed the complexity of what can be posted in this forum.
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Capn Odin
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

17 Apr 2017, 14:18

I don't condone cheating competitively, however nor am I able to accept that the developers of a game should decide how I enjoy their game.
If I feel that some part of a game is too grindy I will automate it, if I like the rest of the experience else I will drop it.

Some examples of my cheating:
  • Deus Ex: Human Revolution: When you play on the hardest difficulty only a third of your energy recharges, this was a problem because I played non-lethal stealth.
    A stealth take down cost a third of your energy, resulting in one take down a minute, much too slow to deal with the number of enemies.
    Using a lua script and Cheat Engine it was possible to trick the automatic recharge to continue until completely full
  • Borderlands 2: Haven gotten tired of killing the same unique enemy numerous times to get the interesting weapons, I found a way to change the drop rate of uniques and changed it so that I only needing a few repeated attempts to get the drop, resulting in a much less tedious experience.
  • AdventureQuest: I played this game in my youth, feeling a little nostalgia I revisited the game and got tired of it again fast (I still like it).
    As my first real project in ahk I automated the game, familiarising myself with ahk was a valuable learning experience.
I won't say I wouldn't have joined the forum, if not for game automation but it would have taken longer, as it was this that drew me to ahk.

Edit: my first point can prohaps be more clearly expressed as "Don't tell me how to have fun" :)
Please excuse my spelling I am dyslexic.
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joedf
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

17 Apr 2017, 15:21

Personally, I don't mind all that much as long it is not in any way deteriorating to AHK's public image or contributes to "monetizing".
I want to promote AHK, make it more known and keep it free+opensource/FOSS.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

17 Apr 2017, 15:41

joedf wrote:I want to promote AHK, ...
...and you actually believe that cheating is the kind of promotion AHK needs?

We already had a forum managed by a person simultaneously managing a cheating site.
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nnnik
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

17 Apr 2017, 15:55

You guys are missing the issue and just blame cheating.
The actual issue is that someone managed to post and share malicious code on this website.
Someone did damage the reputation of this website.
We need to find a way to limit post in the Scripts section to safe content.
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Capn Odin
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

17 Apr 2017, 17:32

nnnik wrote:You guys are missing the issue and just blame cheating.
The actual issue is that someone managed to post and share malicious code on this website.
Someone did damage the reputation of this website.
We need to find a way to limit post in the Scripts section to safe content.
Yeah, sorry. There is no way to ensure that a script is safe outside of going through the code. Unless the problem is extensive I suggest a degree of trust, if on the other hand malware is common we may need to limit who can upload, but I am against this on principle.
Please excuse my spelling I am dyslexic.

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