Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

Discussion about the AutoHotkey Foundation and this website
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Exaskryz
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

12 May 2017, 22:03

I think it'd be nice to archive that thread, with links removed, as an example of going too far, at least in our community.

(Of course, there is nothing stopping someone from going to their favorite gaming cheating websites or even to communities dedicated to those games and sharing their AHK code there.)
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tidbit
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

13 May 2017, 10:49

I'll be deleting all links/code and locking it and PM'ing the author in a few hours unless someone can give me a convincing argument why it's an innocent topic.
Seems a lot of people agree it should be gone.
rawr. fear me.
*poke*
Is it December 21, 2012 yet?
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tidbit
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

13 May 2017, 16:24

did and done.
rawr. fear me.
*poke*
Is it December 21, 2012 yet?
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SnowFlake
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

15 May 2017, 07:17

"rawr. fear me." <-- i agree
:yawn:
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joedf
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

17 May 2017, 17:35

Lock is fine for now i guess
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sinkfaze
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

24 May 2017, 22:17

tidbit wrote:I'll be deleting all links/code and locking it and PM'ing the author in a few hours unless someone can give me a convincing argument why it's an innocent topic.
Seems a lot of people agree it should be gone.


Why should anyone have to give you a convincing argument why it's an innocent topic? Unless something really strange has changed on these forums, we still operate under the premise of innocent until proven guilty. You need to make a convincing argument that the topic is uniquely damaging to AutoHotkey's brand beyond a reasonable doubt. "It's cheats" and "Getting on my nerves" are not evidence of anything.
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Exaskryz
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

24 May 2017, 23:20

What would be evidence of a brand being damaged, in general? That sounds pretty subjective, especially for a non-profit where you don't necessarily tie sales to recent negative publicity events. I definitely see your point that that should be the metric we evaluate submissions on.

On the point of cheats being bad to AHK's image, we forbid malware and even pranks from the forums because they hurt people. Cheats in competitive games hurt people, should they not be forbidden here?
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sinkfaze
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

25 May 2017, 09:05

Exaskryz wrote:On the point of cheats being bad to AHK's image, we forbid malware and even pranks from the forums because they hurt people.


We don't forbid malware and pranks because they "hurt people", we forbid them because they will physically damage one's computer, or lead one to believe that their computer has been physically damaged.

Does a "cheat" physically damage one's computer?
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nnnik
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

25 May 2017, 11:09

Malware is not a physical thing so it cannot physically hurt PCs. Malware damages the software which may or may not result in physical damage in the PC. Whether the user thinks it is physically damaged or not does not make any difference.
On another side ( going by your argument ) the software manifacturer that runs the server might think their servers have become "physically damaged".
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tidbit
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

25 May 2017, 11:11

sinkfaze:
I drew the line at the fact it has like 10 cheats in one. I asked for a bunch of opinions, many people agreed. And none of those cheats could be used for good* in anyway.
* Good as in, letting disabled people atleast be able to play (and probably still disadvantaged). Simple remaps or macros, even simple notifications for those physically disabled, unable to have full hand/arm control, and/or issues with sight.

you mentioned "How is it "outright cheating" if it's there for *anyone* to use?" in the 'other' topic.
Are you saying that if anyone can download an Autofire, Autoaim, No Recoil, AutoBhop, Disconnect from internet to peek around a corner then reconnect and kill - all-in-one script, it's not cheating? Because everyone can get it, therefore it's fair game.
rawr. fear me.
*poke*
Is it December 21, 2012 yet?
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sinkfaze
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

25 May 2017, 11:21

nnnik wrote:Malware is not a physical thing so it cannot physically hurt PCs. Malware damages the software which may or may not result in physical damage in the PC. Whether the user thinks it is physically damaged or not does not make any difference.


Oh FFS, let's nitpick. Malware damages a computer. Pranks appear to damage a computer. "Cheats" do not damage a computer.

nnnik wrote:On another side ( going by your argument ) the software manifacturer that runs the server might think their servers have become "physically damaged".


And where can we find quotes from software manufacturers saying that about "cheats"? Have they come to us directly to make such a complaint?
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sinkfaze
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

25 May 2017, 11:29

tidbit wrote:I drew the line at the fact it has like 10 cheats in one. I asked for a bunch of opinions, many people agreed.


Why did you think the issue needed a solicitation of opinions in the first place? Are we rooting out the damage to "our reputation" for which there is no substantive proof is happening in the first place?


tidbit wrote:Are you saying that if anyone can download an Autofire, Autoaim, No Recoil, AutoBhop, Disconnect from internet to peek around a corner then reconnect and kill - all-in-one script, it's not cheating? Because everyone can get it, therefore it's fair game.


A "cheat" is by definition something that you do or have that your competition cannot do or have, which gives you an unfair advantage over them. If you're giving away that same advantage to your competition, how is that then "cheating"?
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nnnik
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

25 May 2017, 11:36

Oh FFS, let's nitpick. Malware damages a computer. Pranks appear to damage a computer. "Cheats" do not damage a computer.

Pranks might not appear to damage a computer. Cheats may prevent the only use-case of that computer rendering the computer useless.

And where can we find quotes from software manufacturers saying that about "cheats"? Have they come to us directly to make such a complaint?
That's entirely based on your assumptions just like any of your comments.
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sinkfaze
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

25 May 2017, 11:49

nnnik wrote:Pranks might not appear to damage a computer.


So that's why they're banned at the forums, because they might not appear to damage a computer?

nnnik wrote:Cheats may prevent the only use-case of that computer rendering the computer useless.


Talk about arguing from the extreme case! Could we please bring this back to reality?

nnnik wrote:That's entirely based on your assumptions just like any of your comments.


What's based on my assumptions? That you should actually have to prove your assertions?
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tidbit
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

25 May 2017, 12:00

sinkfaze wrote:
Why did you think the issue needed a solicitation of opinions in the first place? Are we rooting out the damage to "our reputation" for which there is no substantive proof is happening in the first place?

A "cheat" is by definition something that you do or have that your competition cannot do or have, which gives you an unfair advantage over them. If you're giving away that same advantage to your competition, how is that then "cheating"?


Because whenever someone (op/admin) does something big (like delete a multi-page topic, or update the backend causing only 3-5 minutes of downtime) on this community without saying it publicly, or letting the public have a say, we get jumped on for whatever reason. If a bunch of people said "no, keep it" or "you're wrong" or something countering me, it would have been kept. Community choice. I brought attention to it (would you believe me if <not naming names> asked me to delete this topic outright, not even ask the community if it should stay? It wasn't even my idea. I just asked and gave this topic a chance on behalf of someone else), and many people agreed (including me) it was a bit too much of a cheat.

But you are not giving it out to everyone on the server. they have to find it somewhere random on the entire internet. It's not a mod that everyone gets on the server. By your definition, nothing is ever a cheat if it can be found online, no matter how big or small of an advantage it gives. A cheat is what is determined in the TOS/EULA. if they say "no automating, botting, auto fire" or (whatever legal terms they use) and people use such tools, even if it's shared online on a small forum, it's a cheat.
rawr. fear me.
*poke*
Is it December 21, 2012 yet?
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Capn Odin
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

25 May 2017, 12:32

tidbit wrote:Because whenever someone (op/admin) does something big (like delete a multi-page topic, or update the backend causing only 3-5 minutes of downtime) on this community without saying it publicly, or letting the public have a say, we get jumped on for whatever reason. If a bunch of people said "no, keep it" or "you're wrong" or something countering me, it would have been kept. Community choice.
I appreciate the transparency and that we get a say on the matter.

tidbit wrote:A cheat is what is determined in the TOS/EULA. if they say "no automating, botting, auto fire" or (whatever legal terms they use) and people use such tools, even if it's shared online on a small forum, it's a cheat.
I would say that as in all social interactions the ones who determine whether or not you are acting socially acceptable are your peers. Incidentally TOSs/EULAs are the one thing in this world that hold the least meaning to me.
Please excuse my spelling I am dyslexic.
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sinkfaze
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

25 May 2017, 17:31

tidbit wrote:(would you believe me if <not naming names> asked me to delete this topic outright, not even ask the community if it should stay? It wasn't even my idea. I just asked and gave this topic a chance on behalf of someone else)


No, I wouldn't, because that is when the topic should've been brought to the mods/admins to discuss no matter who requested it, and funny enough I can't seem to find that discussion in the mod forum. As an admin I don't think that you should have to be told that that is the procedure.

tidbit wrote:But you are not giving it out to everyone on the server. they have to find it somewhere random on the entire internet.


So we must protect AHK's good name across the internet one moment, and in the next moment AHK is "somewhere random on the entire internet"? Which is it?

tidbit wrote:A cheat is what is determined in the TOS/EULA.


And it's not our job to go around reading the TOS/EULA of every game to see if somebody's script is in compliance. They can take their own chances.

tidbit wrote:...if they say "no automating, botting, auto fire" or (whatever legal terms they use) and people use such tools, even if it's shared online on a small forum, it's a cheat.


Do these gaming companies have us on the payroll to patrol our forums for them? I don't give away that kind of time, my time is for rent only.

Thank you for opening the door to this brave new world, where a mod need only solicit a few approvals from forum members and delete away.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

25 May 2017, 17:40

Being a community that is too restrictive can be pretty bad too :/
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RUNIE
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

25 May 2017, 23:45

sinkfaze wrote:A "cheat" is by definition something that you do or have that your competition cannot do or have, which gives you an unfair advantage over them. If you're giving away that same advantage to your competition, how is that then "cheating"?

Hahaahhhahhaaaa what?

In all seriousness, I think the people in the LLC should step up and make a decision to allow cheats or not so we don't have to be in this weird in-between.

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