Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

Discussion about the AutoHotkey Foundation and this website
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evilC
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

01 Jul 2017, 12:03

I am not entirely sure I understand what you mean joe? From my interpretation of what you said, my previous list seems to fit that bill? Are we just seeking to tighten up and finalize some bullet points?

I have tweaked my previous list to try and clarify what is and is not OK.

  • No script that manipulates your aim point while firing in a way that is not proportional to your input (eg "No Recoil") or aims / shoots for you ("Aim Bot" / "Trigger Bot").
  • No script that glitches out character animations etc for the purposes of making you harder to hit (eg "Bunny Hop").
  • No script that allows you to see things that would normally be obscured (eg "Wall Hacks") or that artificially inject maps / radars.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

01 Jul 2017, 12:40

@evilC precisely! :D
I know these are all things you've listed again and again ;)
Might I add to this list...

  • No script that manipulates your aim point while firing in a way that is not proportional to your input (eg "No Recoil") or aims / shoots for you ("Aim Bot" / "Trigger Bot").
  • No script that glitches out character animations etc for the purposes of making you harder to hit (eg "Bunny Hop").
  • No script that allows you to see things that would normally be obscured (eg "Wall Hacks") or that artificially inject maps / radars.
  • no memory or speed hacks or anything that programmatically changes the values of the game or its mechanics.

Everything else not caught by this is accepted?
Once a list is finalized, we may then proceed to a vote/poll whether to implement these rules or not.
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

01 Jul 2017, 12:54

This saddens me :( the amout of places to search for help avaliable to someone trying to learn autohotkey are very few, things like memory Reading comes to mind as an example, but the autohotkey forum almodt always had a post or two about it, now those rules will remove some of that from this forum, the best resource that the autohotkey community has...
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tidbit
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

01 Jul 2017, 13:24

then learn memory reading in non-game programs that won't affect other people (online games) ;)

edit calc's memory or something. need to edit network packets? setup a server (you'll also learn more in the process by doing that). Why does it need to be a game that other people are trying to enjoy?
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

01 Jul 2017, 20:56

Hey! my honest and personally opinion is to allow anything except disrespect.
guest3456
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

03 Jul 2017, 08:36

Again, I strongly strongly disagree with all of this, based on principle. It's not our job to police games.

But I respect any decision and I think its important that there is one

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evilC
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

03 Jul 2017, 08:44

Blackholyman wrote:This saddens me :( the amout of places to search for help avaliable to someone trying to learn autohotkey are very few, things like memory Reading comes to mind as an example, but the autohotkey forum almodt always had a post or two about it, now those rules will remove some of that from this forum, the best resource that the autohotkey community has...

I am not advocating banning code which can read an application's memory.
If, however, something uses that code and pre-packages it in a format whose sole purpose is to cheat at games in a way that significantly impacts other players (eg it is used for a wallhack or something), then I do not think we should allow the posting of that script.
vasili111
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

07 Jul 2017, 06:44

guest3456 wrote:Again, I strongly strongly disagree with all of this, based on principle. It's not our job to police games.

I think the same.
I think game developers should care about it not we.
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vasili111
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

07 Jul 2017, 06:46

Also, what are the main reasons for banning some kind of gaming scripts? What problem is this banning is intended to solve?
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

07 Jul 2017, 07:19

Again, good points have been made... :/
Shall we put things to a poll now?
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evilC
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

07 Jul 2017, 07:43

vasili111 wrote:
guest3456 wrote:Again, I strongly strongly disagree with all of this, based on principle. It's not our job to police games.

I think the same.
I think game developers should care about it not we.

If game developers care about it and deal with it, they generally stop the game from running AT ALL if AHK is installed or running - meaning people with legitimate uses for AHK cannot play the game unless they uninstall AHK or exit all scripts.
THAT is the problem I am trying to address, or rather I am trying to stop things from getting to that point with too many games.
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evilC
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

07 Jul 2017, 07:46

guest3456 wrote:Again, I strongly strongly disagree with all of this, based on principle. It's not our job to police games.

So if people started writing viruses in AHK and distributing them on the forums, would your response be "It's not our job to police windows"?
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

07 Jul 2017, 09:28

Well you can write malware anyhow... :/
guest3456
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

07 Jul 2017, 09:33

evilC wrote:
guest3456 wrote:Again, I strongly strongly disagree with all of this, based on principle. It's not our job to police games.

So if people started writing viruses in AHK and distributing them on the forums, would your response be "It's not our job to police windows"?


no, that would not be my response. i said what i said specifically in regard to this issue. it's all been said already in this thread.

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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

07 Jul 2017, 10:29

Again, I dont know where this idea of policing for software owners comes from. That isnt the suggestion. The suggestion has more to do with this line of thinking
evilC wrote:So if people started writing viruses in AHK and distributing them on the forums, would your response be "It's not our job to police windows"?
Not policing on behalf of other providers but keeping us with being known as a reputable, legit, ethical organization. we cant pretend to police on behalf of anyone else. we are policing on behalf of our own perception of right and wrong.
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vasili111
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

08 Jul 2017, 02:04

evilC wrote:
vasili111 wrote:
guest3456 wrote:Again, I strongly strongly disagree with all of this, based on principle. It's not our job to police games.

I think the same.
I think game developers should care about it not we.

If game developers care about it and deal with it, they generally stop the game from running AT ALL if AHK is installed or running - meaning people with legitimate uses for AHK cannot play the game unless they uninstall AHK or exit all scripts.
THAT is the problem I am trying to address, or rather I am trying to stop things from getting to that point with too many games.

I understand that the intentions are good but I disagree in that restricting some gaming scripts will help anyhow with dealing with the problem described by you.

1. While AutoHotkey primary purpose is not game automation and primarily targets automation of non-gaming related tasks, it will always be best suited for game automation and that can't be changed. So it will be always popular among people that want to automate games. You can not change the software so that it will be suited less for game automation and not to lose any features for non-game automation.
2. Restricting some gaming scripts and allowing others will not make AutoHotkey less associated with game bots. There will be left lots of gaming scripts that are disallowed by game developers but allowed in Autohotkey forums according to rules posted above. So banning some scripts and allowing others will not make game developers think that AutoHotkey is not a good tool for making game bots.
3. AutoIt has banned all types of game related scripts from their forum but that did not solve the problem that AutoIt is strongly associated with game scripting. There are many other forums that are discussing AutoIt for game automation and AutoIt is still heavily used for game automation and AutoIt is still strongly associated with game scripting, nothing has really changed.

I don't think that restricting some or all game related scripts at forums will solve the problem that AutoHotkey is strongly associated with game scripting.


evilC wrote:
guest3456 wrote:Again, I strongly strongly disagree with all of this, based on principle. It's not our job to police games.

So if people started writing viruses in AHK and distributing them on the forums, would your response be "It's not our job to police windows"?

Viruses are not legal, game automation is legal. These two are different things.
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just me
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

08 Jul 2017, 03:10

vasili111 wrote:3. AutoIt has banned all types of game related scripts from their forum but that did not solve the problem that AutoIt is strongly associated with game scripting. There are many other forums that are discussing AutoIt for game automation and AutoIt is still heavily used for game automation and AutoIt is still strongly associated with game scripting, nothing has really changed.
Forum/site rules cannot prevent anybody from writing malware/cheats in any language. But they can show clearly that the AutoHotkey Foundation does not consent to this kind of usage related to AHK.

tank wrote:Not policing on behalf of other providers but keeping us with being known as a reputable, legit, ethical organization. we cant pretend to police on behalf of anyone else. we are policing on behalf of our own perception of right and wrong.
Exactly!
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

08 Jul 2017, 04:25

vasili111 wrote:Viruses are not legal, game automation is legal. These two are different things.
Well, that depends on how you argue your case: https://www.polygon.com/2017/4/4/151778 ... s-judgment

vasili111 wrote:I don't think that restricting some or all game related scripts at forums will solve the problem that AutoHotkey is strongly associated with game scripting.
In line with the virus analogy. C can be used to write OS's or viruses. That doesn't mean C is bad, nor that teaching or helping to write viruses should generally be encouraged or supported.

just me wrote:
vasili111 wrote:3. AutoIt has banned all types of game related scripts from their forum but that did not solve the problem that AutoIt is strongly associated with game scripting. There are many other forums that are discussing AutoIt for game automation and AutoIt is still heavily used for game automation and AutoIt is still strongly associated with game scripting, nothing has really changed.
Forum/site rules cannot prevent anybody from writing malware/cheats in any language. But they can show clearly that the AutoHotkey Foundation does not consent to this kind of usage related to AHK.
QFT. I don't think it's anyone's believe that not allowing it on this forum, will prevent its gaming use. There are plenty of forums more specialized in that. However we do not have to facilitate in it.

tank wrote:Not policing on behalf of other providers but keeping us with being known as a reputable, legit, ethical organization. we cant pretend to police on behalf of anyone else. we are policing on behalf of our own perception of right and wrong.
Simple. :thumbup:
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The more I know,
I know nothing.
guest3456
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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

08 Jul 2017, 08:47

tank wrote:Again, I dont know where this idea of policing for software owners comes from. That isnt the suggestion. The suggestion has more to do with this line of thinking
evilC wrote:So if people started writing viruses in AHK and distributing them on the forums, would your response be "It's not our job to police windows"?
Not policing on behalf of other providers but keeping us with being known as a reputable, legit, ethical organization. we cant pretend to police on behalf of anyone else. we are policing on behalf of our own perception of right and wrong.


right

and in my perception, writing viruses and malware is wrong, writing game cheats isn't, but i guess it depends on the cheat. just because others use our tool for a specific purpose, doesn't make us less "reputable" of an organization. is a hammer manufacturer less reputable because some people choose to use it to smash windows? is C++ less reputable because people use it to write viruses?

but after thinking about it more, i can see the other side. i'm ok with this stuff being banned. i was initially worried about this preventing people from picking up the language, but there's no reason why people can't still ask for help in regards to creating cheats for their purpose and perhaps wording the question a certain way. i think you guys are wanting to ban the distribution of ready made cheats/hacks. while i dont think thats unethical in the same sense as a virus, i can see how it could be perceived that way, and i'm fine with banning them

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Re: Bhop scripts, no-recoil etc

08 Jul 2017, 11:31

Well is C really evil!?
I guess you would have to ask evilC... :hehe:

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