[closed][POLL] Commissions sub-forum

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Commission Sub-forum

Poll ended at 12 Sep 2017, 23:32

Yes, I want there to be a commission sub-forum!
25
45%
No, I don't want there to be a commission sub-forum!
30
55%
 
Total votes: 55
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

20 Aug 2017, 13:19

joedf wrote:... but some want to and it wouldn't be right for me to ignore what is voiced by all users.
Indeed SOME users want it, saying that it is voiced by ALL users is certainly not correct. I wouldn't take the risk.
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nnnik
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

20 Aug 2017, 14:59

What I liked about this comunity and the reason that I stayed so far was the fact that almost every decision was made with the community as a whole in mind.
"What is the best path for the language?", "What is the best path for the community?", "What is the best path for our members?" I felt like this were the questions we asked ourselves when trying to find a conclusion in our discussions.
This is the first time I feel that I'm hearing things that sound like "How can I as a member gain from the community?".
People are completely disregarding and underestimating the cost of such a thing. It is more than just a simple place in the community. People will buy and sell there - yes it's a market and as such you will find stealing, betrayal and all kinds of other things that go along with that. People will start fighting with each other - we will have tons of conflicts about payment or the product. And this will go back to our forums. People will demand Admins/Mods to do something and if they can't things will turn ugly. We will also attract a whole lot more of toxic people that just want to buy cheaply or want to gain money.
The worst thing about this is how this decision was made. I feel like this community looses part of it's soul when we ask what we can gain instead of the community - I think this won't be the last time and in time the community will suffer.
I am not completely against it - I'm willing to compromise. The drawbacks that I talked about wouldn't happen if the Commissions place wouldn't be a sub-forum but somewhere else on the website ( not part of the forums )
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

20 Aug 2017, 15:48

nnnik wrote:The worst thing about this is how this decision was made.

Can you be more clear on what you mean by this? No decision has been made, that's up to the poll, so I'm not understanding what you mean.

nnnik wrote:somewhere else on the website

That would require setting up a separate forum then. I can't say how reasonable that is, considering I don't manage the server.

[nothing further is directed at nnnik]
Concerning users saying "Only some people want it," "It should be a community decision." Well, that's why it's a poll. It is a community decision. But if it was the case that we'd need 100% approval from the entire community, for anything, that's quite unrealistic and an impossibility. People all have different opinions, majority rule is the best that could be implemented.

Concerning the possibility of issues/conflicts within that sub: the responsibility is up to the parties involved, as I've mentioned before, if people don't want to get involved, they don't have to, which is why it's a sub-forum. And, also as I've mentioned before, we will have rules in place (to the extent we may enforce) and enforce them. Anything past that is not up to the staff.

Also as mentioned, these posts already exist, we're just trying to give them a home so that they're separated from Ask for Help. This is very similar to the gaming sub, which was created so people may ignore it (correct me if I'm wrong, but that appears to be the case) if they so choose. Likewise, they may do the same with the pending commissions sub. Moderation will be done the same: If people come for the commissions and make use of other subs, they still must abide by those rules or face moderation, the same as anyone else. If we get "toxic people," we will filter them out as necessary, as we already do.

Joedf said it best here, please take heed:
joedf wrote:This forum is meant to be open to everyone. Simply offering a new "category".


Note:
guest3456 wrote:Masonjar has a 'donation' link in his signature and in the past was looking for paid-for AHK work in his signature as well.

I want to be very clear on this. I have not now nor ever solicited my services in any form or fashion, either online or offline. I have only ever had a donation link, stating largely the same as it did before "Feel free to donate if I've helped you, it's very much appreciated!" The only difference is I removed the bit about not being employed.

I read and acknowledge you meant no offense by saying so, I just wanted to clarify, for no purpose other than accuracy.
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

20 Aug 2017, 17:36

Just to confirm, this poll passing with majority vote FOR the commissions sub-forum does not mean that it will be created necessarily, correct? This is merely gathering data to effectively gauge community support (or lack thereof).
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

20 Aug 2017, 18:19

Oh no... i didn't mean voiced by all, I meant the voices of every individual as in a recollection of all Individual voices. I totally get what nnnik is expressing. And that scenario is very distasteful, I don't want the community to go anywhere that.

Here's what I propose, say this poll passes and the final decision is yes, we implement. HOWEVER, if I see this turns ugly or anyone out there has any form of evidence whatsoever of "ugly" or "distasteful" momentum. I want to know, I want people to tell me. And I will veto this and remove/block the subforum without hesitation.
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

20 Aug 2017, 18:33

joedf wrote:Here's what I propose, say this poll passes and the final decision is yes, we implement. HOWEVER, if I see this turns ugly or anyone out there has any form of evidence whatsoever of "ugly" or "distasteful" momentum. I want to know, I want people to tell me. And I will veto this and remove/block the subforum without hesitation.

Agreed. Though, I do believe it should be with some hesitation (to make sure there aren't just a few misunderstandings or something), but if it truly gets that far out of hand, I see there being no problem in doing so. I simply don't believe it will escalate to anything we can't reasonably handle.
guest3456
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

20 Aug 2017, 18:36

Masonjar13 wrote:
guest3456 wrote:Masonjar has a 'donation' link in his signature and in the past was looking for paid-for AHK work in his signature as well.

I want to be very clear on this. I have not now nor ever solicited my services in any form or fashion, either online or offline. I have only ever had a donation link, stating largely the same as it did before "Feel free to donate if I've helped you, it's very much appreciated!" The only difference is I removed the bit about not being employed.

I read and acknowledge you meant no offense by saying so, I just wanted to clarify, for no purpose other than accuracy.


Yep, fair enough, and that was my mistake, so my apologies

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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

20 Aug 2017, 18:41

There is a distinction which should be made, because I've been part of forums where this kind of thing has been implemented before.

That is, there are TWO types of posts that could end up appearing:

1. Posts requesting services and offering payment for coding. These are the posts that happen already. I have even posted these myself before. "I need XXX done, can someone do it? I will pay YYY"

2. Individuals posting offering their services. "Hey I'm @userxxx and have YYY years experience in AHK and I'm good at skillset ZZZ here is my hourly"

I don't know if there is a difference or not, or whether one specific type or both should be allowed. However, I have always held a personal dislike for the posts that fall in the #2 category and I thought that they detracted from the marketplace forum when it was implemented.

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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

20 Aug 2017, 18:51

guest3456 wrote:I don't know if there is a difference or not, or whether one specific type or both should be allowed. However, I have always held a personal dislike for the posts that fall in the #2 category and I thought that they detracted from the marketplace forum when it was implemented.

Yes, there absolutely is a difference, and I agree with you. I did want to make [at least one] ambiguous exception[s], but I've considered that it may be inappropriate to do so. If requested, I could share the idea here and let the community decide on that as well.
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

20 Aug 2017, 19:20

Noted.
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nnnik
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

21 Aug 2017, 03:14

When you voted for this commission sub-forum you already made the decision for it.
And as I stated the drawbacks are going to be rather large if we do it in this forum.
Also a forum is an inadequate solution to the problem of trade so I doubt that the new place wherever it's going to be is going to be a forum software.
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

21 Aug 2017, 08:30

Sorry, but I'm against such a (paid) subforum!
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

21 Aug 2017, 09:04

What do you propose now?
I did not believe this would be an issue with such magnitude of concern. I'm at crossroads here.
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

21 Aug 2017, 09:12

guest3456 wrote:1. Posts requesting services and offering payment for coding.
exactly the point
guest3456 wrote: Individuals posting offering their services
Moderated with extreme prejudice. let me be as frank as possible here HELL NO!!!

This whole discussion has revealed that while it seems to sit in a majority in favor at the moment there are some rather strong views against it. Valid points have been raised. I have reserved voicing an actual opinion till now.

I think having a place for folks to offer to pay for scripts is awesome. Turns out that is still asking for help. (I need help and I am unwilling to do any work for it). These posts are frustrating when they occur but they are and have always been part of this forum. I voted against.

I disagree that forum software can't provide a solution to this. I think it can. In fact, it is the limitations of forum software that make it a great hands off the transaction. the downside to a separate forum instance is maintenance and moderation. I have another freelance project I am engaging in right now that will be lengthy and just don't have the time to invest.

In the end, i feel like there are better answers like donation coder or other freelance boards that are a better solution. Maybe we should evaluate and pick one to partner with. I will as always yield to the will of the community but if my opinion counts for much I strongly oppose a subforum.
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

21 Aug 2017, 09:36

I am also against such a subforum. I think it could alter the general feeling and the atmosphere of the whole forum to the worse.

It's not bad to pay for something in general (or to get paid) but I see this forum as a place to help each other out, on a free and voluntary basis... and that worked great so far!
I fear that - once you have a dedicated subforum - answers like "Well, then you should go to our Commissions forum" (perhaps in more cloudy words, but for sure )will be become more and more and it will hurt the quality of help people can get for free.
Yes, there are now already open offers in the forum - and I don't like them. I don't think that it was the original idea to have them on this site. And let's talk about gaming. There were discussions to ban scripts from the forum which could be considered cheating (because they wouldn't be good for the reputation of AHK). Well, I could live with that, but would these scripts also be banned from the Commissions subforum? I doubt it... especially because most of the exchange would probably not be visible anymore.

tl;dr: I fear, a dedicated subforum (and most probably a surge of paid help) will damage the community and lower the quality of advice you will get for free.
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

21 Aug 2017, 09:46

tank wrote:Maybe we should evaluate and pick one to partner with.

+1 for this. This is a great idea, it will resolve all the issues people have with this and at the same time offer a solution for people who are looking for it.
You can just add a sticky and be done with it.
I think the poll should be restarted with this as one of the options.
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

21 Aug 2017, 10:19

How can I change my vote from earlier?

I voted earlier "Yes, I want there to be a commission sub-forum!" and I have since changed my mind. My reason originally was: sounds like a good idea to rid the "ask for help" section of requesters, effectively telling them to go away unless they want to learn AHK. Now I see there is danger involved that I did not anticipate at first glance.

Edit: thanks for enabling the revote option, I have changed my vote.
Last edited by wolf_II on 21 Aug 2017, 13:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

21 Aug 2017, 10:35

Okay. We'll let the vote complete as the end date set before. We'll hold off implementing this. I wanna see if I can communicate with DonationCoder to have a dedicated section on their forum. And we'll simply provide a forum link to it.

If I am successful, does this sound like a compromise that everyone can be happy with?

If this brings people to leave the community then I must stop this. A strong united community is more vital to me than having a few new sections.

Masonjar13 please enable revoting. I always have that on, people change their minds: the very basis of what is a discussion. Thanks.

I know everyone is trying for the best here. I don't want us to start going separate ways when I am sure we can do something about this, together.
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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

21 Aug 2017, 11:40

I strongly disagree with sending people away from this forum and off to another site such as DonationCoder

That's even worse

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Re: [POLL] Commissions sub-forum

21 Aug 2017, 12:43

wolf_II wrote:How can I change my vote from earlier?


+1

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