Since I seemed to remember that this was mentioned before, I did a test with my greg_test (new user) account. I can confirm that new users can't edit their posts if posted in the Gaming subforum.
I guess this might be a leftover from the times when we didn't require approval for new user posts in that specific subforum. Since 'Gaming' was added to the approval-required forums some time ago, I guess we could allow editing now, as long as edited posts need re-approval (which seems to work in other subforums; not sure, if in all...)
In the 'Gaming subforum', there is no 'edit' button available for new users:
New users can't edit their posts in the 'Ask For Help > Gaming' subforum
New users can't edit their posts in the 'Ask For Help > Gaming' subforum
Last edited by gregster on 15 Sep 2022, 22:41, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: clarified the topic name
Reason: clarified the topic name
Re: New users can't edit their posts in the 'Gaming' subforum
I checked Ask For Help and Gaming, both are set to No edits allowed.
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Re: New users can't edit their posts in the 'Gaming' subforum
No, that can't be it. I am re-approving edited posts from new users in 'Ask For Help' all the time:
Example from today: viewtopic.php?f=76&t=108452 -> first two posts ny LogicMind, both edited later
The topic logs also show that I re-approved the edited posts - which were invisible to RussF, for example, in the meantime.
(OT: Actually, there seems to one entry missing in the topic logs: the approval of the post from 18:03, which was not an edit; strangely the approval notification of that post is still open in my notification list - but that's besides the point, that's a normal glitch in the matrix which happens from time to time - I actually remember that the forum showed a rare "database error" when I approved that, and I was surprised that it got through nevertheless.
You can also see it in the topic itself that they were made and by whom, and there are bazillions of other examples.)
For demonstration purposes, my alter ego greg_test created a topic in 'Ask For Help', I approved it and made another post (as gregster), then the test acc edited its post, which I approved again:
Other than in 'Gaming', there was a pencil icon available which greg_test used to make that edit.
Example from today: viewtopic.php?f=76&t=108452 -> first two posts ny LogicMind, both edited later
The topic logs also show that I re-approved the edited posts - which were invisible to RussF, for example, in the meantime.
(OT: Actually, there seems to one entry missing in the topic logs: the approval of the post from 18:03, which was not an edit; strangely the approval notification of that post is still open in my notification list - but that's besides the point, that's a normal glitch in the matrix which happens from time to time - I actually remember that the forum showed a rare "database error" when I approved that, and I was surprised that it got through nevertheless.
You can also see it in the topic itself that they were made and by whom, and there are bazillions of other examples.)
For demonstration purposes, my alter ego greg_test created a topic in 'Ask For Help', I approved it and made another post (as gregster), then the test acc edited its post, which I approved again:
Other than in 'Gaming', there was a pencil icon available which greg_test used to make that edit.
Re: New users can't edit their posts in the 'Gaming' subforum
Oh you mean Gaming under Scripts & Functions? I meant under Ask For Help.
I've update it now to use "Newly Registered user" standard access instead of "On Moderation Queue".
I've update it now to use "Newly Registered user" standard access instead of "On Moderation Queue".
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Re: New users can't edit their posts in the 'Gaming' subforum
No, actually I tried today to edit one of my posts (as greg_test) in Ask For Help > Gaming. The logs confirm this.
I haven't looked at Scripts and Funtions... but I have looked at three dozen random topics with new users in Ask For Help > Gaming without finding a single documented edit from a new user (there might be cases in which the topic was originally in a different subforum)
But I can try again later today, and report again.
The issue I had was that there are no edits possible for new users in Ask For Help > Gaming...
I haven't looked at Scripts and Funtions... but I have looked at three dozen random topics with new users in Ask For Help > Gaming without finding a single documented edit from a new user (there might be cases in which the topic was originally in a different subforum)
But I can try again later today, and report again.
I am not sure, but this doesn't sound like what I meant Did you now deactivate the moderation queue for that subforum?
The issue I had was that there are no edits possible for new users in Ask For Help > Gaming...
Re: New users can't edit their posts in the 'Ask For Help > Gaming' subforum
Sorry, I think I am misunderstanding...
Newly registered users are intentionally unable to edit their posts. They should not be able to edit anywhere, in order to prevent bait-n-switch / bait-n-wait spam.
Once promoted to Registered user, they should be able to edit then, with "Standard Access + Polls" across the board.
Are you saying I should allow edits for new users in certain subforums?
Newly registered users are intentionally unable to edit their posts. They should not be able to edit anywhere, in order to prevent bait-n-switch / bait-n-wait spam.
Once promoted to Registered user, they should be able to edit then, with "Standard Access + Polls" across the board.
Are you saying I should allow edits for new users in certain subforums?
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Re: New users can't edit their posts in the 'Ask For Help > Gaming' subforum
That is incorrect. They are not unable.Newly registered users are intentionally unable to edit their posts.
At the current moment (and during the last years), edits are (and were) allowed for new users - in some subforums, like the main 'Ask For Help', like I have demonstrated here (I tried it, it's true), and can also be seen in the already referenced example topic viewtopic.php?f=76&t=108452#p482483 in which I have re-approved the initial two posts after they were edited. See posts
and topic logs. There are tons of other examples.
Such behaviour is currently prevented because edited posts still need to be re-approved after each edit, as long as they are made by a new user. As long as re-approval is pending, these posts are invisible for the general community, but still can be seen by staff as you and me (but we will also see the approval dialog). I have personally re-approved myriads of edited posts by new users in 'Ask For Help' during the last 3.5 years, and I am surely not the only staff member...they should not be able to edit anywhere, in order to prevent bait-n-switch / bait-n-wait spam.
But if you really think that this should not be allowed, I can only tell you, that it is currently possible in the main 'Ask For Help'. I would say it is not a problem, as long as edited posts need to be re-approved, like currently, although it sometimes confuses non-staff members if a post suddenly dis- and reappears because of an edit.
What is confusing for the new users, and also for us staff members, is that we don't know which rules are active in which subforum, at least as long as I don't try it out myself with my test account greg_test (which is a new user account). Suggesting to use the pencil button feels kind of dumb, if I find out later that there was never such button available for that particular user in that specific subforum.
Why is editing allowed in 'Ask For Help', but not in 'Ask For Help > Gaming', although they have otherwise the same approval requirement?
(My guess: Remnant from the past, when posting in 'Gaming' wasn't restricted for new users - new posts would still show as unread, like any other post, so it could be checked.)
Anyway, I think I have fulfilled my reporting duties and will just resort to guessing again, if a new user has a question about this. At least I don't intend to spend much more time on this topic. Thanks for reading!
Last edited by gregster on 16 Sep 2022, 19:02, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edit
Reason: edit
Re: New users can't edit their posts in the 'Ask For Help > Gaming' subforum
Perhaps we leave this edit for demonstration purposes.
Edit: Now I added this.
Edit: Now I added this.
Last edited by greg_test on 16 Sep 2022, 12:29, edited 1 time in total.
Re: New users can't edit their posts in the 'Ask For Help > Gaming' subforum
Just as another data point -- I also see new users editing their posts all the time, causing them to disappear while waiting for the edited post to be approved. After they are approved, they re-appear in their former place.
Re: New users can't edit their posts in the 'Ask For Help > Gaming' subforum
I see. I don't feel that strongly either way. I can enable editing in all cases for all users. I think perhaps this is me mixing up the settings. So to be clear, we want allow editing, but just approval queue for the initial post. Correct?
I can do this later in the week.
I can do this later in the week.
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Re: New users can't edit their posts in the 'Ask For Help > Gaming' subforum
No, that's not what I meant.
I would suggest, if we allow editing, every edit by a new user should still send the post back to the approval queue, like it happens currently in 'Ask For Help' or 'Forum Issues'. greg_test's edit above also needed re-approval before it got visible for the public.
Like you said, it prevents bait-and-wait. Just keep that behaviour. Or disallow edits altogether, but no edits without re-approval for new users. That's what I think.
My suggestion was mainly to not have different behaviours in subforums, like in 'Ask For Help > Gaming' where edits are not possible at all for new users.
If we disallow edits for new users altogether, that's also okay, but would only be my second choice.
At least, more consistency would help to answer new user questions about editing in a better way. At the moment, I have to try things out myself with my test account, for each subforum.
I just thought that it could lead to less confusion, but perhaps the opposite is the case. Perhaps we shouldn't do anything, and just say: "Well, if you can't find a pencil button, then you can't edit!"
At the moment, we sometimes insist, "please give your topic a meaningful name instead of 'NOOB HELP!!!' - just edit the first post" or "please edit and add code tags". Of course, we shouldn't do this anymore, if we are not sure that the user can edit at all.
I would suggest, if we allow editing, every edit by a new user should still send the post back to the approval queue, like it happens currently in 'Ask For Help' or 'Forum Issues'. greg_test's edit above also needed re-approval before it got visible for the public.
Like you said, it prevents bait-and-wait. Just keep that behaviour. Or disallow edits altogether, but no edits without re-approval for new users. That's what I think.
My suggestion was mainly to not have different behaviours in subforums, like in 'Ask For Help > Gaming' where edits are not possible at all for new users.
If we disallow edits for new users altogether, that's also okay, but would only be my second choice.
At least, more consistency would help to answer new user questions about editing in a better way. At the moment, I have to try things out myself with my test account, for each subforum.
I just thought that it could lead to less confusion, but perhaps the opposite is the case. Perhaps we shouldn't do anything, and just say: "Well, if you can't find a pencil button, then you can't edit!"
At the moment, we sometimes insist, "please give your topic a meaningful name instead of 'NOOB HELP!!!' - just edit the first post" or "please edit and add code tags". Of course, we shouldn't do this anymore, if we are not sure that the user can edit at all.
Last edited by gregster on 16 Sep 2022, 20:41, edited 1 time in total.
Re: New users can't edit their posts in the 'Ask For Help > Gaming' subforum
Okay, I've updated the entire english section to the "On Moderation Queue" permission set.
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Re: New users can't edit their posts in the 'Ask For Help > Gaming' subforum
Hello @joedf,
I am a new user, and I cannot currently edit my post in Ask for Help: viewtopic.php?p=499473#p499473.
If understood this thread correctly, the intention is that I should be able to edit my posts?
I am a new user, and I cannot currently edit my post in Ask for Help: viewtopic.php?p=499473#p499473.
If understood this thread correctly, the intention is that I should be able to edit my posts?
Re: New users can't edit their posts in the 'Ask For Help > Gaming' subforum
Not sure, where this was left off, but currently edits are not allowed for newly registered users.
Once you reach 10 posts, you will have less restrictions.
Once you reach 10 posts, you will have less restrictions.
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