"Paid" or "Premium" software on the forums

[joedf]

As I've mentioned here, there's a fine line: https://autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic ... 71#p135471
I must admit... I personally don't like "premium" software to be on here. That being said, I feel we have to put down a firm rule to decide this. (Will be added to manifeso) Should we or should we not allow premium software? Remember, these are also a source of promoting AHK, possibly good or bad not sure... We have already put down a rule that all form of advertising, spam or promoting is not allowed. However, what of paid software? "Premium" will always be out there. I don't mind it too much until it starts to hinder me from normal forum/web usage. If it's allowed, maybe limit it to one topic with no external topic-mentions, files are to be hosted elsewhere, topics are to be locked?
I would like to hear from everyone if possible.

[HotKeyIt]

I think it could be fine to have it in 'Other Utilities & Resources' as long as it is AutoHotkey software, but this might be difficult to tell and prove that it does not harm, so in the end we might still end up deleting those.
In my view, to make it simple, we need to make clear in forum rules that 'closed source' software is not allowed to be uploaded to autohotkey.com, only a link to a website can be posted in 'Other Utilities & Resources'.

[Nextron]

The fact that developers want compensation in any kind cannot be prevented and is their perfectly good right. However, in my opinion, the strength of the community is to selflessly help, educate and share or develop based on each others work and ideas. It's always possible somebody takes that work in order to turn it into a personal profit, so be it.

The forum shouldn't be a platform supporting and indirectly sponsoring personal gain. If the source or a free fully working executable of a program isn't shared, it doesn't add much value to the community's repository. Instead it could turn the forum into a hosting, promotion or support infrastructure. Either way, it doesn't belong here in any form.

[guest3456]

We have already put down a rule that all form of advertising, spam or promoting is not allowed.

Then how does that example not fall under 'advertising'? Why do you think the author of that thread is so upset about the fact that 'just me' wanted to delete the thread? Could it be because he would no longer get his free advertising?

If it's allowed, maybe limit it to one topic with no external topic-mentions, files are to be hosted elsewhere, topics are to be locked?
I would like to hear from everyone if possible.

How I've seen it done on other forums is have a specific subforum for 'commercial' scripts. That may be a good idea here too.

Scripts & Functions
- Gaming
- Commercial Scripts

But the mere presence of that forum may encourage more 'commercial' scripts, so I don't know if that is what you want either

[joedf]

@guest3456 You do have a point. I had that in mind, but it is a fine line: many programmers out there probably want the "fame" even if it means working for free, things such as self/author promoted open-source software.

Considering what has been said, which I greatly appreciate, I have written the following to help define this "fine line". Here's what I have so far:

Topics about "premium", "paid", "closed-source" or 'personal-gain' * autohotkey related software are allowed provided that they do not:
- impede on the everyday user's forum browsing
- AHK Forums is not to be the hosting platform of said object.

*Something that will directly or indirectly sponsor, support or promote anything that has, might or will allow or help personal gain

They must respect the following:
- If no free, open-source version (that can be feature-limited), showing how the main or core feature is achieved, is provided (meaning it does not add much value to the community): the topic in question shall be limited to be in the Other/Offtopic section (such as 'Other Utilities & Resources' or 'Offtopic') with a simple description and only ONE reference link to an external website.
- Shall have only ONE exclusive topic mentioning the said 'software'.

Topics that do not respect this will be considered as advertising or spam and will be treated as such.

[guest3456]

I agree that its a fine line and I think your definitions are good

[Xtra]

They must respect the following:
- If no free, open-source version (that can be feature-limited), showing how the main or core feature is achieved, is provided (meaning it does not add much value to the community): the topic in question shall be limited to be in the Other/Offtopic section (such as 'Other Utilities & Resources' or 'Offtopic') with a simple description and only ONE reference link to an external website.
- Shall have only ONE exclusive topic mentioning the said 'software'.

Topics that do not respect this will be considered as advertising or spam and will be treated as such.

Don't forget to add: USE AT YOUR OWN RISK

[tank]

Its a clear Violation of my commitment to Chris. It must not be allowed in our help forums at all. I must and will take a rather obtuse tone on this subject

[tank]

I think it could be fine to have it in 'Other Utilities & Resources' as long as it is AutoHotkey software, but this might be difficult to tell and prove that it does not harm, so in the end we might still end up deleting those.
In my view, to make it simple, we need to make clear in forum rules that 'closed source' software is not allowed to be uploaded to autohotkey.com, only a link to a website can be posted in 'Other Utilities & Resources'.

That was always the stance Chris took and the only one i am prepared to support on this subject

[joedf]

So are we taking the "only an external link in Other Utilities & Resources" approach, or zero-tolerance?

[SOTE]

Reading this, kind of agree with what I saw. If I had any kind of vote- maybe not on the other AutoHotkey sections, but as links in the Other Utilities & Resources section. Because it doesn't appear to be not that much different from what is being promoted or linked to in that section. A commercial solution might be the answer to somebody's problem, so they can look among the free and paid solutions shown in that section. Just a thought.

[xZomBie]

I'm okay with "Paid" or "Premium" software on the forums but on the linked topic, the software is basically cheats(not game play enhancement) that violates the rules and regulations in the game by having slight edge over other players. Just my opinion.

[nnnik]

I'm not offering my free time on this forum so that someone can use it as a platform to distribute his poorly programmed programs that are potentially harmful to me.

[just me]

IMHO

• AHK is open source, so all applications developed using AHK should be open source, too. When released on this site, it has to be a must. If the author wants a financial prize for his work he may add a donation link.
• Scripts and Functions is the place to release AHK applications.
• Other Utilities & Resources is the place for non-AHK utilities and resources. Clear advertisement for other websites or products without apparent use for AHK development should be prohibited.

[joedf]

In that case, if we all agree with this. I'll add it in the "manifesto", saying explicitly that spam and advertising includes any kind of paid or premium software.

[Masonjar13]

I'm not sure if this applies or if it falls under "self-promoting," but I actively code as a service, that is, I'm paid for my time writing, not for the end result. I've never promoted it [on the AHK forums] and very likely won't, but would doing so be against the rules? Either way, perhaps it should also be mentioned in the same clause to avoid confusion.

[tank]

offering work for hire and offering paid products are close cousins. while nothing historically prevents a user from offering to pay i think we should stay away from offering work for pay. I certainly cant be supportive of this within the help boards. the help boards are for free help.

[tank]

Hopefully this post offers some clarification
https://autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic ... 63#p136963

[joedf]

Perfect

[evilC]

offering work for hire and offering paid products are close cousins. while nothing historically prevents a user from offering to pay i think we should stay away from offering work for pay. I certainly cant be supportive of this within the help boards. the help boards are for free help.

I agree 100% with the "No Paid Software" rule, but I have to say that I disagree with this.

However, where do we draw the line? What about that gui skinning tool (USkin? could be another one)? That has a paid premium version doesn't it?

Pre-compiled software with no available source code is a potential risk to general users of the forum. Someone hiring someone else to do some work for them is not a risk to visitors.
Withholding help and saying "You have to pay" is one thing (And is not what we are about), but if the scope of something is beyond the abilities of someone coming to the forum, I see no problem in them hiring a seasoned coder to do it.
Also, this is kind of a blanket statement, what if someone wanted to pay someone to code something, but was happy for it to be open source, available for the benefit of all?