new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

Discuss issues and requests related with the forum software
User avatar
jeeswg
Posts: 3537
Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 01:58
Location: UK

new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

01 Jan 2018, 18:08

- A 'Bug Reports Overflow' subforum in Bug Reports.
- To place Bug Reports posts that 'aren't bugs', or rather, bug-like behaviour that the main devs already know about, or that had already been documented, or that isn't considered a bug on technical grounds, versus newly-discovered bugs to remain in Bug Reports.

- In terms of AutoHotkey development, the Bug Reports forum should primarily suit the needs of the main devs, however, in terms of user development, Bug Reports should also suit their needs and requirements.
- Users don't always know that a bug is well-known. Users can't know, unless it's documented somewhere. The subforum would be a great place for people to check if the bug-like behaviour that they have discovered, has already been reported.
- It's impossible to find a Bug Reports post once it's been moved to Ask For Help.
- The devs would not have to spend time writing things like 'Moderator's note: Topic moved from Bug Reports'. It will be understood that the subforum is where posts often go.
- The main devs may have a specific and nuanced idea of what should be in Bug Reports, but the overwhelming majority of users won't. Users should not be made to feel 'wrong' or disrespected for reporting bug-like behaviour to Bug Reports, it's bad for the community.
- You can change the text: 'Report problems with documented functionality', but it won't improve the situation at all re. how best to filter posts.
- Nobody should be too upset if their post is moved into the 'overflow' subforum.
- It would be a useful resource for information about bug-like behaviour. It would be very useful as a reference for checking if a suspected bug is known about, learning about AutoHotkey, improving the documentation (or adding to my documentation extension tutorial), and writing tutorials.
- There are currently 459 threads in Bug Reports, so by now the overflow subforum could have something like 50-500 threads in it, a very useful resource.
- Thanks for reading.
User avatar
joedf
Posts: 6132
Joined: 29 Sep 2013, 17:08
Facebook: J0EDF
Google: +joedf
GitHub: joedf
Location: Canada, Quebec
Contact:

Re: new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

02 Jan 2018, 17:54

Ok... however the name is misleading, and I feel this will only add to the confusion.
User avatar
jeeswg
Posts: 3537
Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 01:58
Location: UK

Re: new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

02 Jan 2018, 18:16

- The name can change. I based it on the systray 'overflow' window.
- A description post could explain what it's for.
- A lock could be put on users creating new posts there. Only mods could move posts there.

- Two ways in which 'confusion' could be reduced:
- People could find their own posts, and posts that they had previously read in Bug Reports, more easily.
- The number of unnecessary posts to Bug Reports would decrease, as people found their problem listed in the 'overflow' subforum.

- I'm curious if the forum automatically adds 'originally from X forum' text (to save the mods hassle), or stores the original forum that posts were posted to in a database, so that people can retrospectively inspect such posts. Thanks.
User avatar
joedf
Posts: 6132
Joined: 29 Sep 2013, 17:08
Facebook: J0EDF
Google: +joedf
GitHub: joedf
Location: Canada, Quebec
Contact:

Re: new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

03 Jan 2018, 12:21

Everything is done manually. There’s no auto move/sort/rename or what not. Well, there’s something that can be set up based on post content... that said, please excuse me, but I am having a hard time understanding how a user might try to distinguish between an actual bug and bug like behaviour... is this like a dual gate system?
Many bugs are identified as so only later on, usual by lexikos himself. He is the one that will usual make the distinction. Others will know too sometimes. However, it is not always so clear... :think:
User avatar
jeeswg
Posts: 3537
Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 01:58
Location: UK

Re: new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

03 Jan 2018, 12:44

- The forum description simply says:
Report problems with documented functionality
- Generally people post things there that they believe may be bugs. Sometimes that behaviour is a quirk of Windows, not AutoHotkey, or sometimes the bug is already in the documentation somewhere (but in the small print). And other caveats.
- Anything that the main devs don't consider an actual undocumented AutoHotkey bug, (I have no disagreement with that unwritten/hard-to-explicitly-define criteria,) is moved to Ask For Help.
- I think the simplest solution would be, to simply keep everything as it is at the moment, but instead of moving relegated posts to Ask For Help, move them to an Overflow subforum.
- Whatever happens or doesn't happen, it would be useful to have a list of *anything* that had ever been submitted to Bug Reports.
User avatar
jeeswg
Posts: 3537
Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 01:58
Location: UK

Re: new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

03 Jan 2018, 14:29

- Good call Helgef, many thanks.
- I did some searches, and found some posts mentioning that they had been moved out of Bug Reports, but lacking that specific string.
- One reason I asked about the string being automated, is that if it's not it could easily be: omitted or typoed or worded slightly differently or introduced only in more recent posts.
- Here are the best links I have at the moment (including yours):

search Ask For Help for: [Moderator's note: Topic moved from Bug Reports.]
AutoHotkey Community - Search
https://autohotkey.com/boards/search.php?keywords=%5BModerator%27s+note%3A+Topic+moved+from+Bug+Reports.%5D+&terms=all&author=&fid%5B%5D=5&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

search Ask For Help for: bug reports
AutoHotkey Community - Search
https://autohotkey.com/boards/search.php?keywords=bug+reports&terms=all&author=&fid%5B%5D=5&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

search all forums for: bug reports
AutoHotkey Community - Search
https://autohotkey.com/boards/search.php?keywords=bug+reports&terms=all&author=%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

- Btw any pointers on what searches can/can't find? I often look for things I know are there, only to not find them, and so use Google/Bing/forum backups instead. I'll start a new thread on searching the forum.
User avatar
Exaskryz
Posts: 2802
Joined: 17 Oct 2015, 20:28

Re: new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

07 Jan 2018, 00:57

"Documented Behaviors" or "Expected Behaviors" or "Non-Intuitive Behaviors" or something to that effect.

The trouble is getting people to look in these forums when they think they've found a bug. Having them in two different places is only going to be utilized by people experienced with AHK and reporting bugs otherwise.

So at that point, the Ask for Help is the logical place for these threads to be made.

---

If a change had to happen, valid Bug Reports should be moved into Bug Reports -- a closed forum where new posts can't be made (but ideally replies could be). If moderation tools allow moderators to edit titles of posts, that can help handle "Is this a bug?" posts in Ask for Help by changing the title to something descriptive of what's going on.
User avatar
joedf
Posts: 6132
Joined: 29 Sep 2013, 17:08
Facebook: J0EDF
Google: +joedf
GitHub: joedf
Location: Canada, Quebec
Contact:

Re: new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

07 Jan 2018, 01:41

Exaskryz wrote:[...] If a change had to happen, valid Bug Reports should be moved into Bug Reports -- a closed forum where new posts can't be made (but ideally replies could be) [...]
I see what you mean. As for now, for everyone, I will not make any changes. If change is required later on, then it shall change. :)
lexikos
Posts: 5681
Joined: 30 Sep 2013, 04:07
GitHub: Lexikos

Re: new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

08 Jan 2018, 04:49

[Moderator's note: Topic moved from Bug Reports.]
... was not typed manually. I have this program called "AutoHotkey" that is great at automating some tedious tasks (not all tedious tasks, unfortunately).

Exaskryz wrote:If a change had to happen, valid Bug Reports should be moved into Bug Reports -- a closed forum where new posts can't be made (but ideally replies could be).
I agree with that. I do not want to spend time explaining why something is not a bug, or mechanically moderating the forum. When I am in the mood to fix bugs, I do not want to spend time and split my focus by filtering through irrelevant topics, or helping a user fix their non-bug problem. There are many other users who can help with script problems, very few who can fix bugs, and fewer still who do. If a user decides their problem "feels like a bug" and posts it in Bug Reports, it gets more attention from me and perhaps less from more willing users who focus on Ask for Help. If the topic does not meet my expectations, my replies will be less helpful and I'll feel that I've wasted my time, so everyone loses. Too much of this and I just stop visiting the forum. (Then I win and you lose.)
User avatar
joedf
Posts: 6132
Joined: 29 Sep 2013, 17:08
Facebook: J0EDF
Google: +joedf
GitHub: joedf
Location: Canada, Quebec
Contact:

Re: new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

08 Jan 2018, 10:39

I should try this tool called AutoHotkey... :think:
User avatar
jeeswg
Posts: 3537
Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 01:58
Location: UK

Re: new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

08 Jan 2018, 13:06

If a change had to happen, valid Bug Reports should be moved into Bug Reports -- a closed forum where new posts can't be made (but ideally replies could be).
- I had also thought that this could be the best solution. A 'Confirmed' (or another name) subforum. It would probably result in fewer posts needing to be moved.
- (I initially suggested a 'relegation' subforum mainly because it's more like the current situation.)

- Looking over posts recently:
- There are a high percentage of posts now, in Bug Reports, that arguably should be moved out to Ask For Help, under the current criteria.
- Also, I remember at least one post, where a major user was saying that a thread shouldn't be moved out to Ask For Help, and that the thread should be kept in Bug Reports. And other similar debates. (I.e. thread movement ping pong, I think it was moved out *and* returned.)
- There are too many grey areas under the current system, it's not a coherent system. Moving out the best posts to a 'Confirmed' subforum, is a simple solution that solves everything, it isolates the posts that really interest the devs, and avoids any wrangling regarding grey areas.
- Furthermore, as users see that recent posts have been promoted to the 'Confirmed' subforum (ergo other posts weren't), they will be more likely to help out on the recent posts that haven't been promoted.
- This also puts less pressure on the main devs i.e. lexikos to resolve *all* posts that are kept in Bug Reports, versus, *selected* posts that are promoted.

- I like the name 'Bug Reports' as it is, because it helps users to think carefully before posting there.
- Obviously a pinned thread could explain the 'Confirmed' subforum principle.
User avatar
joedf
Posts: 6132
Joined: 29 Sep 2013, 17:08
Facebook: J0EDF
Google: +joedf
GitHub: joedf
Location: Canada, Quebec
Contact:

Re: new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

08 Jan 2018, 21:02

I don’t really mind, I’ll really go with whatever Lexikos prefers.
User avatar
hoppfrosch
Posts: 311
Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 04:05
GitHub: hoppfrosch
Location: Rhine-Maine-Area, Hesse, Germany
Contact:

Re: new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

09 Jan 2018, 00:54

Just an idea: After identifying its really a bug - why not file it as github-issue?
lexikos
Posts: 5681
Joined: 30 Sep 2013, 04:07
GitHub: Lexikos

Re: new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

09 Jan 2018, 04:10

GitHub's issue tracker was a source of more unconfirmed/non bug reports, only more annoying because I get email notifications and there are fewer people likely to answer them. I turned it off. Anyway, I am not going to file issues for confirmed bugs. At most I might add a few words in my notes if I'm not already fixing the bug.

Of course, a better solution to all of this would be for someone else to do the bug fixing. :trollface:
User avatar
joedf
Posts: 6132
Joined: 29 Sep 2013, 17:08
Facebook: J0EDF
Google: +joedf
GitHub: joedf
Location: Canada, Quebec
Contact:

Re: new forum proposal: Bug Reports Overflow

10 Jan 2018, 00:12

lexikos wrote:Of course, a better solution to all of this would be for someone else to do the bug fixing. :trollface:

Yaaahaha A perfectly valid point. ;)

Return to “Forum Issues”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest